As far as I see that instance is a far-right cess pool. Everything I’ve got from that instance were low-quality transphobic “news articles”.

  • SwingingKoala@discuss.tchncs.de
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    1 year ago

    Here at exploding heads we allow anyone to say and post pretty much anything.

    Yeah, that’s just code for “nazis welcome”. They’ll tell you that anybody is welcome, but you just have to ask yourself who would not be welcome anywhere to see who such communities are built for.

    • Double_A@discuss.tchncs.deOP
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      1 year ago

      And then it’s usually the most low-IQ people you’ve ever seen. So even if you are a person with controversial opinions and would like to discuss them, you can’t even do that properly.

      E.g. imagine that you like cryptocoins, but see some kind of problem with them that you would like to argue about… Everything you get is an angry Mob with nonsense responses.

  • kbity@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Nazis aren’t welcome here, best they learn that now rather than through a long process of being told by everyone else here to fuck off.

    • yarr@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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      1 year ago

      What’s your definition of a Nazi? A member of a national socialist party? I want to understand what is being banned before it’s banned.

      • kbity@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        My criteria for what makes “a Nazi” are something like this.

        1. A belief that race is an immutable genetic concept, that reproducing outside one’s race is inherently wrong, and that some races are inherently superior to others; most often the superior groups are “white”, while the “inferior” groups include Africans, Jews and travelling people

        2. Reverence for cultural “tradition”, real or imagined, with any departure from these traditions classified as “degenerate” and dangerous to society. For example, a belief that avant-garde art is immoral and without value because it doesn’t root itself in what are popularly perceived to be the artistic traditions of “the west”, a neat line from Greek marble statues to Wagner.

        3. Hatred of diversity, seeing it as a plague that rots a society. For example, the belief that women are unfit to hold a social position outside of motherhood, that non-heterosexual sexualities are “degenerate”, that allowing people from another race to exist in your race’s society inevitably leads to that society’s destruction, that gender as a concept is a “mental illness” because only two biological sexes exist and each biological sex has a set-in-stone role demanding a certain presentation and certain values, that societies which follow one religion must not allow followers of another religion to exist within it.

        4. Heavy use of absolutism. Everything is either wholly good or wholly bad. Nothing can be a mix of good and bad, or neutral. And everything is a matter of utmost urgency. Anything that is “bad” is an existential threat to all that is “good” and must be immediately and utterly annihilated.

        5. An authoritarian outlook. Anything opposed by a Nazi must be forbidden by the full force of the law. There is no space for differences of opinion, or a nuanced debate, or reviewing the facts. If they oppose something, whether it’s big or small - the use of marijuana, reformative justice programs, abortion, media with female protagonists - it must be banned under pain of death.

        6. Violence. To a Nazi, the use of violence isn’t an escalation, but the norm. They have no qualms about beating people to death simply for espousing an opposing view, or even just for existing if some aspect of their existence offends their beliefs. Likewise, their rhetoric often alludes to the indiscriminate or nonchalant, even gleeful use of deadly force - “physical removal”, “showers”, etc.

        7. Shameless hypocrisy. The people who say “facts not feelings” as a rebuttal are often the same people whose beliefs are motivated almost entirely by feelings, and will happily mock others for trying to use evidence in their arguments instead of simply saying “it’s common sense”. They will shame someone for being rude and aggressive while also calling them the N word and telling them that on “the day of the rope”, they’ll be among the dead.

        8. Veneration of strong leaders and mocking of “weakness”. Consensus-builders are seen as spineless “cucks”, while people who enforce their every arbitrary whim with total force are held up as “based” exemplars of good leadership and models to be emulated. People who are comfortably being themselves in ways that aren’t conventionally masculine are addressed with slurs and told to kill themselves while ignorant, bullying asshats are applauded for “rustling jimmies”.

        You can meet all of these criteria without being a member of a National-Socialist party, or even identifying as a Nazi, but if you do meet most or all of them, your ideology can be pretty confidently described as Nazi-like.

        • yarr@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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          1 year ago

          This seems pretty well thought out.

          I’m a little confused by: “A belief that race is an immutable genetic concept”. If I was born in Spain and my whole family has lived there for centuries, am I not Spanish / a Spaniard?

          I’d agree that saying things like “all Spaniards are terrible at math” is racist, but I don’t see how one’s race is mutable in this fashion.

          • GeneralVincent@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            They may be talking about ethnicity vs race? Google says in basic terms, race describes physical traits, and ethnicity refers to cultural identification. Race may also be identified as something you inherit, whereas ethnicity is something you learn.

            So ethnicity is certainly mutable

          • kbity@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I’m a little confused by: “A belief that race is an immutable genetic concept”. If I was born in Spain and my whole family has lived there for centuries, am I not Spanish / a Spaniard?

            Spanish would be a good description of your ethnic background in that situation, but there are quite a number of ethnic identities within Spain as well - the Basque, Galicians and Catalans, just to name a few. “Spanish” isn’t a racial monolith. There would be plenty of people whose ethnic background looks quite different to yours but who are no less Spanish.

            What I mean in that statement is that Nazis believe that “race” - as in “Germanic”, “Hispanic”, “Black” (they tend to lump all sub-Saharan Africans together), “Middle Eastern” - is a useful way of classifying people, and that substantial differences in things like intelligence and physiology between humans are primarily the result of these categorisations.

            • yarr@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Spanish would be a good description of your ethnic background in that situation, but there are quite a number of ethnic identities within Spain as well - the Basque, Galicians and Catalans, just to name a few. “Spanish” isn’t a racial monolith. There would be plenty of people whose ethnic background looks quite different to yours but who are no less Spanish.

              But none of that is mutable, is it?

              • kbity@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Your DNA isn’t going to change, but those ethnic groups are transient things rather than an inherent feature of reality. An ethnic group is ultimately a relative thing. Some “African-American” people might be genetically closer to the African people from whom their ancestors came than the other ethnic groups living in America, but they’re not simply “African” - they are a separate diaspora. Those ethnic groups change their makeups over time.

                It’s not like, say, elements. 1,000 years from now, the average genetic makeup of any given ethnic group will be observably different from how it is today, but a Hydrogen atom will still be defined in exactly the same way as now. Nazis believe that races are a concrete, reified structure that doesn’t shift over time - it is a “pure” and “natural” state that becomes degraded and diluted by what they term miscegenation, rather than a fuzzy construct that changes over time.

                Let’s say you were born in Spain and your whole family has lived there for centuries, but your family are black - say, some of your ancestors arrived from North Africa long ago. I would still call you Spanish, but a Nazi would call you African (or more likely some kind of slur). They care about the colour of your skin more than your actual background. Likewise, no matter how many generations your family has lived in a country or how well they pass, Nazis assert that if any of your ancestors was a Jew, you are also a Jew, and that as a Jew, you are inherently inferior to non-Jews and consequently a racial contaminant.

                • stonemilker@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  1 year ago

                  Just adding to this, following this same supposedly biological argument that advocates for a natural and morally correct path for the furthering of genetic lineages, Nazis persecuted homosexuality, bisexuality and trans people as a national policy, shutting down sexology research institutes, literally burning years of scientific advancements, and revoking official acknowledgements the Weimar Republic granted transgender people. It’s often forgotten, but the inherent homophobia, biphobia and transphobia of neonazis and adjacent movements is not a recent development at all: https://www.advocate.com/news/holocaust-lgbtq-victims-german-parliament

      • Spaceman Spiff@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I find it interesting that in a thread entirely about Nazis, and nothing but Nazis, you heard Trump.

        Make of that what you will

        • Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Because the instance being discussed is basically TheDonald and related ideologies. Because you all don’t seem to understand what reality is.

  • Milan@discuss.tchncs.deM
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    1 year ago

    After a while of thinking and reviewing, I have come to the conclusion to defederate as requested. If they correct course, I’ll happily re-review them.

    • Double_A@discuss.tchncs.deOP
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      1 year ago

      How? I can only block communities, but not a whole instance. That’s the core of the problem. It’s not just **one ** toxic community that we could easily block, it’s pretty much the entire server.

    • Ado@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I asked this another day. It will allow them to spread their nazi bs to new people who aren’t aware, which can become especially dangerous because they rhetoric will be unseen and unchecked by those who blocked them.

      Personally I think that’s a good enough justification for defederating vs blocking. They are outright nazis after all, idk if we really need to wring our hands over it.

  • hendrik@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Why vote? Isn’t that the decision for the instance admins to make? (And also their job?)

    Just ping them and also flag offending posts.

      • hendrik@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Just directly write them a message. I don’t think it needs a vote by the majority of the community to exclude some right wing crypto bros who like transphobia etc

        Also if you focus your energy here instead of notifying an admin, they might not read it and you kinda did the opposite of what you intended. Focus your energy here only if the admins and moderation don’t do their job properly.

      • Kantiberl@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        While it’s crucial to oppose harmful ideologies like Nazism, we must be wary of how we define such harmful groups. If we broaden these definitions arbitrarily, we risk encapsulating people who merely differ politically, diluting the term’s significance and unjustifiably alienating individuals. In doing so, we inadvertently shrink our own communities, polarizing society to the extent where a moderate viewpoint might be mistaken for extremism. Right-leaning communities fall into this trap as well, resulting in fragmented realities where each group exists in its own echo chamber. This division deepens societal fissures and undermines moderate views, which, in my belief, are grounded in reality and thus instrumental in achieving balanced discourse.

        • ReCursing@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          You’re not entirely wrong, but when we are actually talking about actual literal self-declared fascists who are obviously talking and acting fascistic, then it definitely does apply. This is a long way past any sort of grey area, dude!

          • Kantiberl@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            This is where the need for nuance comes in. If we were dealing with a platform overrun by advocates for genocide, then defederation would be a reasonable step. But the lack of nuance creates an issue. If any perspective slightly outside your tolerance threshold is immediately labeled as Nazi, where do we draw the line? At what point on the right or the left spectrum does a viewpoint become unacceptable? The challenge lies in defining these boundaries and promoting dialogue without promoting hate.

        • artisanrox@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Soooooo here’s a helpful hint to tamp down that utter confusion you seem to be having:

          The guys who want armed guard genital inspectors in front of every bathroom are the bad guys.

          • Pelicanen@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Right, they never stated otherwise, but transphobic measures doesn’t necessarily make one a nazi. It makes you awful but there are different kinds of awful than just nazism. The risk of calling everyone a nazi is that you dilute what the word actually means so that you risk generalizing and uniting the awful people instead of separating them based on their various horrendous opinions.

            • Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              transphobic measures doesn’t necessarily make one a nazi

              True but neither ideology deserves a spot at the table of civilized discourse. So it’s a bit of a moot point.

              • Kantiberl@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                It’s not a moot point when we consider the fluidity of language and the potential for any group to manipulate terms to suit their interests. If someone can blanket-label their opposition as a ‘transphobe’ or, more extreme, a ‘Nazi’, it bypasses meaningful debate and eradicates the chance to understand differing viewpoints. This not only oversimplifies complex discussions, but it also fosters a lazy and destructive discourse that can fuel animosity rather than understanding. We need to be challenged. A tree that grows without wind will not have the strength to stand in a storm.

                • artisanrox@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Imagine using the ammo of “complexity” and the subjectivity of language to defend wholly unsubtle people who explicity want others harassed/harmed/dead for being their authentic selves and that authenticity has absolutely NOTHIGN to do with them personally

            • artisanrox@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              The vast majority of people screaming about bathrooms in the US are in fact Nazis or nazi adjacent.

              There is NO reason to dump that much hate on like two or three people per state unless you just enjoy the cruelty.

          • Kantiberl@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Who exactly holds the authority to label ‘the bad guys’? Sure, some actions are undeniably harmful, but does that warrant placing all perceived wrongdoers in the same category, from internet trolls to murderers? Is there no nuance or room for varying degrees of transgressions? I hope you can ask yourself if you’re always on the side of righteousness, or might you be perceived as 'the bad guy" from another perspective? It’s important to understand that the world is not simply binary, and such a mindset can dangerously oversimplify complex issues.

            • Chetzemoka@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              What you are suggesting is that we, as a society, are incapable of discerning right from wrong and enforcing societal norms at all ever. Because who knows? Who has the power to determine these things?? hand wringing, pearl clutching

              Let me tell you who: Anyone with two brain cells and a heart. Fascism has a clear definition. People who are being called Nazis because they openly hate and advocate for the genocide of trans people are being called Nazis because THEY ARE ACTING LIKE NAZIS.

              We absolutely have no obligation to air their bigoted, make believe grievances in public. We have every right to shut them down and shut them up to protect vulnerable minority populations.

              Stop JAQing off and pretending otherwise.

              • Kantiberl@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Nazis exist, and they are abhorrent. But is it fair to label the entire community of exploding-heads as such? Or, is it that the platform tolerates a broader range of discourse than you are comfortable with? Yes, Nazis may be part of the mix, but so too might be their staunch opponents. Assigning people to preconceived boxes based on assumed beliefs isn’t conducive to understanding. While we concur on opposing Nazis, I refuse to disregard an entire group’s perspectives because I may disagree with some. It’s crucial to engage with opposing views for a balanced discourse, a principle applicable to everyone.

                • Chetzemoka@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  It is NOT crucial to engage in any kind of discourse with fascists who advocate genocide (aka Nazis)

                  And you know what you have if a “normal” person sits down to dinner with 10 Nazis? You have 11 Nazis.

                  There is no room for tolerance of Nazis, nor of those who coddle and enable Nazis.

                  So yes. It’s fair.

            • artisanrox@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Who exactly holds the authority to label ‘the bad guys’?

              People who don’t get their rocks off by investing more effort into hating the marginalized.

              This isn’t about me and this isn’t about subtlety. On the whole LGBT+haters are nazi adjacent and they get a kick out of hating the marginalized, and they do it VERY LOUDLY.

              Like literally it’s the AMERICA FIRST!ers here that are now specifically hating on like the two or three trans people in each state who play sports, and like the maybe handful of total trans people in each state in comparison to state population.

              • Kantiberl@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Sounds to me like you group everyone who has an even remotely different viewpoint than you in to one category so you can easily hate and discredit them all without ever actually thinking critically.

                You’re just bringing up ideas you don’t like and then creating a strawman character that you can hate. You know they think the same way about you right? Do you not see how this leads to misinformation and unnecessary hatred? Solving nothing and creating even more division is not something I will stand behind.

      • Kantiberl@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Oh no! Guess I’ll just have to figure out why that matters or why you think I would care.

  • tookmyname@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Bigotry should be banned, and removed from this instance. That means not allowing bigotry on our instance. That means defederating from less clever wannabe 4chans, and less moderated The_D replacements.

    They can enjoy their shithole federation.