Inherent to any discussion of “is X good/bad for the environment?”, there’s always the matter of accounting: to what or whom – and when – do environmental benefits/impacts accrue? And there’s no general answer to that, which is why multiple reasonable people in a room can independently conclude that the solutions to climate change can be any of: personal responsibility and personal consumption taxes, the downfall of capitalism, public policy to distort market forces, laissez faire and light-touch regulation, domestic manufacturing, offshore mining, or even all of the above simultaneously.
Unless there is agreement on how the climate impacts are counted and totaled up, you’ll get 11 answers from 10 people. I think the point of this video is: 1) in proportion to either the typical Western consumer or the average human anywhere on earth, the embodied carbon footprint from manufacturing of an ebike is low, and 2) the propensity to displace other modes of transport is where ebikes can flex their environmental credentials.
Some may not agree that displacement is a net positive, arguing that if an ebike works so well for someone that they sell their car, then that car will be driven by someone else and now there’s an extra ebike in this world. I don’t agree with such simplistic logic or its conclusion.
But for people that do see displacement as a valid environment net-benefit, then I hope they’ll see that ebikes are very effective at that. Since ebikes still use lithium batteries, that’ll continue to be a point of contention, but given the typically fossil-fuel alternative, we could do much, much worse for the environment.
Certainly worse than a regular pedal bike.
The only cycling I do is my commute, it’s ten miles each way on hilly roads. I’m not 21 anymore and I absolutely wouldn’t be cycling it without an ebike. This saves 100 miles of driving every week.
Yh, it’s worse than a regular bike but you shouldn’t let good be the enemy of perfect.
I’m not saying e-bikes are bad. Just clarifying that they’re not a zero impact bike v. a pedal bicycle.
Funny that you say that. Check min 4:40 - https://youtu.be/HW5b8_KBtT8?si=kWTIiAzLzRaKve6b&t=280
That’s like saying exercise is bad for the environment, shit take.
They are more carbon intensive to produce, since they are a regular bike, with additional parts.
Actually mate, I know it sounds ridiculous, but it has been demonstrated that, statistically, because of the extra amount of calories burned and the pollution due to food production and transportation in modern times, ebikes are greener despite the higher impact of their production.
Of course the specific case can be different, maybe someone already grows their own organic food and buys an ebike without doing any distance that they couldnt cover easily with their acoustic bike, and then proceeds after only a few months to throw their ebike off a bridge (stupid example, but much more important when studying the impact of electric cars vs ICE cars, if an EV gets into a really bad accident or fire in the first ~20-30k kms of its life, then it would have been slightly better for everyone that it wasnt built, compared to an ICE car)
As far as exercise goes, it has also been shown that ebikes results on average in more exercise by more people, because people cover much bigger distances, and/ore use it more often, and because it allows you to smooth out the ride (making some roads, especially climbs, cyclable to people who wouldn’t have been able to do them with a normal bike), and to decide for yourself when you want to put more effort.
The person would still need to exercise by another method and still need to consume those calories…
All it’s doing is pushing it to some other metric to make theirs look better.
Sorry, it’s a shit take since people still need all of that exercise and food regardless the food still needs to be shipped, bike or ebike and supplemental exercise. You know what’s even better for the environment using this asinine logic, never leaving the house and having everything delivered, it’s someone else’s problem, just like using an ebike and claiming it’s better.
That doesn’t add up the way you think it does. An e-bike is still exercise. In fact, it’s pretty good exercise because for general health, time spent doing physical work means more than the actual exertion level of that exercise. For body building, you do need high intensity, but not for general health.
What it adds up to is that e-bike riders tend to get more exercise because the motor lets them go longer distances. What you end up with is transportation and exercise being done together, and the extra calories don’t need to be spent on separate exercise time.
There are countless situations in which you can ride too much, or your cargo/baby passengers are too heavy, or the roads are very polluted and that extra breathing on that particular climb is better avoided…et cetera
Have you tried an ebike? My favorite bicycle is a 1980s road bike which weighs maybe 8kgs, but I know what it means to commute every single day more than 30kms with it, it stops being fun after a few weeks. My second favorite is my ebike.
Following your line of thinking we shouldn’t have lifts because people need the exercise. Do you know that a single flight of stairs with a lift uses as much energy as roughly 10km with an ebike/escooter? But you don’t see me or anyone else attacking lifts/elevators. Also to remember, the lithium mined or refined to make the battery, can be reused forever.
What does any of that have to do with people still needing to exercise and consume calories beyond what an ebike gives?
Putting the blame on something else is a wonderful way to make the point and statistics look like propaganda, which is exactly what this is bordering on, and your arguments are fallicous, nothing to do with the topic.
People still need exercise and calories, full stop, moving it elsewhere so one thing looks better, only shows your bias…:
At the outset and comparing total emissions, yes. (E-bike = Regular bike parts + motor, battery, controller after all) Comparing on an emissions per kilometre basis, the research referenced in the video suggests no.
Uh huh, now, talk about how lousy the battery recycle process is.
BTW, I’m not anti-ebike. Just pointing out they’re not as environmentally friendly as a pedal bike.
It’s absolutely addressed in the video. Even if something like only 5% of Li-ion batteries are recycled currently, methods are slowly improving and the target for 2026 in Europe is to have 60% of lithium batteries by mass recycled.
Even if you assume that the whole e-bike is thrown in the trash once the battery wears down, the emissions per km and net benefit still work in the electric bike’s favour.
The video also goes further in that emissions related to meat and/or vegetable consumption being the main source of energy used to power a conventional also need to be calculated for in the calculation of operating emissions/km.
Even ignoring that, it just comes down to the fact that a person would put more kilometres on an ebike than a conventional one resulting in the largest net carbon reductions despite the little differences here and there.
The video also goes further in that emissions related to meat and/or vegetable consumption being the main source of energy used to power a conventional also need to be calculated for in the calculation of operating emissions/km.
Right but if you only burn 20 calories during your ride to work instead of 200, you still need to exercise and eat those calories somewhere else. Pushing the problem somewhere else to make your own look better is textbook propaganda. Buddy needs to account for the additional exercise and calories to make up for the saved calories of an e-bike for the same distances.
Hes having his cake an eating it by cherry picking different situations to make one look better than the other.
Ok maybe a personal anecdote might put things in perspective then?
One pleasant Sunday I biked from Vancouver to White Rock, a 100km round trip, on my ebike with a 450Wh battery. I ate Kraft dinner and a can of tuna that I brought with me, and picked up a scoop of ice cream. With a conventional bike the limits of how far I’d go on a day trip would be to Burnaby Lake, about a 25-30km round trip. I’d eat the same lunch and probably some equivalent snack. By the end of the trip I was exhausted and the battery was as well.
If I only had a normal bike and wanted to go to White Rock I’d take the bus instead.
Yes you’re right, I consume the same number of calories and food in the two scenarios. What to compare is the emissions to make my lunch and snack, divided by 25km vs. the emissions to make my lunch, snack and additionally generate and deliver 450Wh of power to recharge my bike (BC is 90% hydro power in my case but feel free to calculate the mix in your area) and divide that by 100km. See which one has lower emissions per km.
So you got a better workout on the regular bike….
Now you need to go to the gym and burn off those calories the e-bike didn’t….
You’re missing the fact that you need to still stay fit and healthy, since you don’t get the same exercise on an e-bike…… or it takes longer with more distance so it’s less time to do other stuff. It’s all trade offs and putting in something else…
You aren’t the person I [edit: originally] replied to and you are missing the point entirely. This is not a comparison of how healthy it makes me overall, nor is it a comparison of the time it takes, which your assumptions are off. My exhaustion level or informal way to put the physical energy I expended for the day is held the same.
It’s a simple calculation of emissions over distance. Food emissions / distance by bike vs. Food plus electricity emissions / distance by ebike.
People using an ebike would still need to exercise and consume calories beyond what the video is using. So sure, if you ignore the additional exercise and calories someone using an e-bike would need to account for over a regular bike, it becomes “better” for the environment.
Would they drive their cars as much? Because I wouldn’t.
I feel like some need for the electric part depends on how in-shape you are as well as your trip conditions. I started getting in-shape enough to think about it, then my local trail closed and now I am probably back to where I was. My bike is also only 250w so it isn’t much of an ebike.
Well that, and I’d want a similar size (or smaller) bike, such as a minivelo. Not really a thing where I’m at and seems to be a cost premium. Unless maybe I could get one used somehow. Though I’m also not in a city, so it probably makes less sense than for other people.
