- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
The Israeli military says its Northern Command has approved operational plans for war with Lebanon.
Israel is ready for an “all-out war” in Lebanon and has plans approved for an offensive targeting Hezbollah, officials have said.
Israel and Hezbollah have been engaged in border fighting since shortly after the start of the war on Gaza, following the October 7 attacks on Israel. The confrontation is increasingly expanding, with both sides saying they are ready to go to war.
More than 400 people have been killed in Lebanon, including journalists and paramedics, over the past eight months, with 25 deaths in Israel. At least 90,000 people have been displaced in Lebanon, and more than 60,000 have been forced from their homes in northern Israel.
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That’s because Netanyahu needs a forever war to keep his dictatorship. That’s always what this has been about.
Forever wars only work against enemies that can’t really do anything back.
Israel is about to enter the ‘find out’ stage.
They will end up finding out that the US will absolutely have their back despite the genocide of Palestinians so that the US can keep their middle east ally. You know, like that one asshole who always starts fights because their big friends help out when they start getting their ass kicked.
If they do, that will very likely pull in Iran, Russia, and now with the recent agreement, possibly North Korea.
The US is not as big as they were in the late nineties and early aughts.
The US navy has almost as many aircraft as all of Russia.
The US Army has more aircraft than all of Russia.
The US Airforce has more aircraft than the US navy and army.
That’s just planes and helicopters.
If you think any of the countries you talked about are a serious threat to the US outside of nuclear war, then you’re sorely mistaken about how truly insane US defense spending is.
That’s true, but I think what recent conflicts have demonstrated is that total firepower isn’t everything. Ukraine was significantly outmatched by Russia and hung on, even before western weapons shipments. Hamas, estimated at something like 30k fighters strong and armed with small arms and light rockets/artillery, continues to fight effectively against the US armed IDF. Then we have historical examples like the US war in Vietnam, or the US failures to fight insurgents in Iraq (with the tide only changing after deliberate hearts and minds political/social strategy).
The whole “we have a lot of planes” thing is just defense contractor marketing. How that translates on the battlefield, especially when the civilian population despises you, is not great.
A war like that would devestate Isreal and drag the US into a true quagmire. It would sap a tremendous amount of resources and leave the US more vulnerable to the china’s and Russias of the world.
Not to mention our good old buddy international terrorism, which Bidens unwavering support of Bibi is already making us a prime target for. Shit would be fucked.
The scenario I described is World War 3.
That what Bibi, and Biden with his unwavering support, are playing with.
then you’re sorely mistaken about how truly insane US defense spending is.
NevermindNoMind already made this point to you but it bears repeating, Money spent doesn’t translate into combat effectiveness. In fact, it tends to actually go against it. EDIT: Or, more specifically, money spent on individual weapon systems. The best weapon is the cheap one that can be mass produced, even if there are better weapon systems.
Ansarallah has been clear that part of their missile strategy is to eat into our budgets. They’ve been winning by that strategy. The total cost of their drones/missiles used against the US was in the several hundred thousand range, and the estimate for the missile defense ammo the US has used is around a billion dollars, and that was several months ago. Even the US can’t compete with that cost disparity.
Secondly, it doesn’t matter how many ships you have if you can’t resupply them with ammo. America outsourced its production capabilities. It didn’t outsource its weapon production facilities, but we can’t convert the facilities we don’t have any more to support increased ammo production, and we don’t have enough weapons factories to supply the requisite ammo for continued operations in a modern war.
Third, your usage of “just planes and helicopters” is stupid beyond description. I am not willing to agree with you that the US will have air superiority in all theaters, which sadly is what its military doctrine both requires and assumes. (Which, by the by, is why the NATO trained Ukrainians did so poorly with their spring offensive. It’s not their fault they couldn’t use tactics that assume air superiority that they didn’t have, but jesus the NATO people switched to racism right quick to explain the failure.) However, other countries doctrine assumes that air superiority won’t be theirs.
Iran, for example, assumes they won’t have air superiority from the start and so they spent most of their engineering time on missile technology. The Russians have tried to compete with their aircraft, but focused mainly on their G2A anti-air defenses. Now, even with Syria and Ukraine, there still isn’t a lot of info on the effectiveness of the S400 in against the American Airforce.
It also doesn’t account for the huge disparity in drone deployment capability which is frankly the future of the next war. And the US fails at this completely. The two main US drones cost 30 and 40 million a piece when the name of the game here is CHEAP. Frankly, Iran and now Russia beat our pants off on this topic. Even Hezbollah and Ansarallah have confirmed US drone kills. This is the scariest part. Culturally in the American military right now, being involved with drones was not seen as a career advancer, and definitely not something you’d want to put money into serious research.
This is more than I meant to write in response to a comment that basically amounts to a middle-schooler pounding their chest while screaming “My daddy can beat up your daddy” so I’m going to end it here.
If you think money translates to military readiness and sound doctrine, then you’re not thinking about this very hard at all.
But the war in Ukraine has demonstrated that US stockpiles of ammunition are woefully low. Doesn’t matter how many planes you have or that your soldiers have the best weapons if they run out of missiles and bullets.
I mean this is purely conjecture but I would be very surprised if the US military did not in fact have huge stockpiles of ammunition that they are simply not willing to give to ukraine explicitly so they can be ready for an actual US deployment
Right that’s just the stock of old/obsolete/close-to-expiring munitions and equipment we’re willing to spare.
Half-assed support from the US isn’t because of ammunition shortfalls, it’s because the US will only give just enough to drag out the war and drain Russia as much as possible.
Ammunition for artillery that they don’t use by doctrine.
They have a ton of eg. plane ammo, but they don’t give planes to Ukraine.
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I’m curious what you mean. Hasn’t Hezbollah been targeting Israel for decades? There’s already been the South Lebanon Conflict and the 2008 Lebanon War.
What will they find out that they didn’t already know?
I think if they do a full-blown invasion, they’ll find out that Hezbollah (and quite possibly the regular Lebanese military) is a much bigger, experienced, and sophisticated enemy than Hamas. Also, an invasion of Lebanon could easily attract third parties (like Syria-based militias or even other countries).
If it’s a limited, restrained operation to create a buffer zone, it might not lead to escalation. There’s apparently a peace deal on the table that would accomplish just that but Hezbollah wants Israel to agree to the “ceasefire for hostages” deal in Gaza first.
But let’s not forget that Netanyahu is going to jail on corruption charges as soon as he isn’t prime minister. He’s alienated everyone except the extremist parties on the right so, ultimately, they’ll be able to control policy just by threatening to leave the fragile coalition government. So, I don’t know if I’d bet on a limited, restrained operation.
I think if they do a full-blown invasion, they’ll find out that Hezbollah (and quite possibly the regular Lebanese military) is a much bigger, experienced, and sophisticated (…)
Oh they know well. Israel has invaded Lebanon twice (at least?) and both times they failed in a humiliating way.
You need to understand that most people’s understanding of the conflicts in the Middle East started on October 7, 2023.
Many users here start their understanding from about a week after October 7.
The situation is not static at all.
Hezbollah has significantly improved upon their capabilities during that time period. Also, as a corollary to this, weapons technology in general has significantly advanced in a form that brings various capabilities to state actors that didn’t use to have the tech or financial base to support them.
Guidance systems, avionics, electronics, and drones are changing the face of warfare in a way that removes a lot of the tech advantages rich nations had over poorer nations. But, the richer nations (And this isn’t just about Israel, but most of the western states) are sticking their heads in their sand because their weapons manufactures are used to being used more for laundering tax payer money to the right people then for making great weapons. The main drones for the US cost between 30-40 million EACH!
Furthermore, Israel is going through all of the copium that settler colonialist societies go through when their martial superiority is starting to come into question. They clutch harder to their beliefs that make them feel secure. Israel withdrew in 2006 and declared themselves victors when it was obvious that they were not victors at all. Now, that is all that Israel remembers about 2006. That they won. That is what they truly believe.
There are a lot of delusions that are about to break here. That is why I say that if they try with Hezbollah, that it will be a ‘Find Out’ stage.
EDIT: Also, people tend to use the wrong measurement for what they consider to make an army strong. One of the most important factors is a willingness for a military to take causalities. There are very few armies stronger than Hezbollah by this measurement, whereas Israel has been very weak on this front since the early 2000’s. Having a conscript army will do that.
What are you going on about? Do you actually believe this stuff you’re pulling out of thin air?
Lebanon has like nine fighting aircraft and that may be an over estimate. Hezzbollah has zero.
Israel has hundreds of fighters jets and bombers each, with thousands of drones ready to fly.
Lol?
Hasn’t Hezbollah been targeting Israel for decades?
It’s just cute how much you left out, there, as if that’s the only thing that’s been going on.
“You see they hit us then we hit them. Then we hit them and they hit us, man. It’s like a war, ya know what I’m sayin’” – Ice-T
The discussion was specifically about what Hezbollah would do to Israel in a new war and not how fault should be parcelled out for their long-running conflict.
Who exactly are they going to fight that’s going to make them find out? The only powers in the region that are threat to them are Turkey, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. None of which they’re going to fight.
LOL.
Yeah, that’s why the north is evacuated and Hezbollah is striking the north of Israel with impunity. How’s that Iron Dome working in the North?
Secondly, Hezbollah is probably, pound for pound, the most competent military force in the region right now. You want to discount that to feel safe, well, that’s part of the fuck around and find out. Thirdly, Iran will have this as an Casus Belli to enter the conflict, and the PMU’s in Iraq have already stated they will invade in the event of an invasion of Lebanon.
The only powers in the region that are threat to them are Turkey, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia.
This is what makes it clear that you are not a serious person in the area. Saudi Arabia couldn’t beat the poorest nation in the world with American planes, Columbian mercenaries, American refueling, and American intelligence all while starving the nation in an attempted genocide.
Saudia Arabia as a regional military power? That’s a bad joke. I can’t believe you wrote that with a straight face. They were literally beat by teenagers in flip flops.
That’s always what this has been about.
I would add Zionist settler colonialism in the mix
You are definitely correct. I don’t understand why these border countries and messing with a clearly deranged man. He’s just looking for an excuse.
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Yes? And?
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No, it is not obvious to me what America has to do with Netanyahu’s forever war plan to shore up his dictatorial powers aside from America’s military aid.
Maybe rather than playing coy, you could explain yourself.
This seems inconsistent with previous overwhelming thought that Israel wants to kill Palestine completely. Killing that many people that fast (in a course of just a few months) would not let it last for too long in the end.
Also, is there evidence of Israel being a dictatorship? Is there an opposition that is being threatened or killed or something?
Sure, just ask Netanyahu’s former best friend:
One person? That’s not an opposition. Where is the opposition movement? Where are oppressed citizens?
What are you talking about? You asked for evidence of Netanyahu shoring up a dictatorship and I gave it to you. Someone who knows him very well is saying that’s what he’s doing. I’m not sure why you think that isn’t enough.
I don’t think we have the same understanding of dictatorship. Dictatorship can’t be hidden to the point of being only apparent to special people. It should be obvious to everyone and especially citizens affected (oppressed) by it. So far I’m not seeing any evidence of that.
Again, you asked for evidence and I gave it to you. Did you even read the article? From his best friend? Who talks about exactly how he’s creating a dictatorship? Do you think there wouldn’t be thousands of Israelis at protest rallies demanding an election if they were having elections like normal?
I hear Putin is a dictator and there are tons of evidence. I hear Xi is a dictator and there are tons of evidence. The evidence you gave (an article with words from one person) is laughable at best, sorry. Israeli people seem to live just fine under Netanyahu. Also it doesn’t seem probable that he would attack Gaza if the October 7 attack didn’t happen (and people are having a hard time trying to prove that he somehow made it possible). Same with Lebanon.
Israel continues to get worse and worse.
If someone could just figure out a way to point them at Russia, rather than picking fights with everyone else.
Well, russia be shipping muslims to Belarus like there is no tomorrow. Maybe tell Benny there is a lot of muslims in Belarus and they are coming from russia?
My thought was not “Get Israel to bomb all the people Russia is racist against”.
That’s literally Russia’s military strategy: conscript minorities and throw them as human waves into the meatgrinder in order to ethnically cleanse Russia while genociding Ukraine
I meant like russia is Gaza 2.0 and Kadyrov is literally Hamas. Maybe they will fuck off from Palestine.
Kadyrov is literally Hamas
Because he’s Chechyan presiding over a Chechnyan government? I’d think he was more comparable to MBS or Abdullah II, whom Israelis are openly courting.
Israel gets worse and worse…defending themselves.
From the people they’re colonizing. That doesn’t count as defending themselves. I can’t say self-defense when I kill you after you try to punch me because I shot you multiple times.
The down votes are from the Jews who get offended easily and are first to say you are antisemitic. Sometimes a “/s” is not enough.
next up, invade random countries… don’t mind me I’m just going through Hitler’s to-do list.
Doing a Blitzkreg to win some Lebensraum and no I don’t understand why this would be problematic.
The Südetenland is already waiting to be liberated and fulfill their genetic destiny!
These propaganda memes are getting more and more bizarre. This is the “Promised Land” meme that from I can tell originated from a faked photo of a patch on an Israeli soldier a few weeks ago.
Israel simply doesn’t have the capability to take that amount of territory, much less hold it. And see that blue on the Sinai peninsula? Israel actually controlled that in the past. They returned it to Egypt when they made peace in the 70s.
This is the silliest anti-Israel meme yet. Try harder next time.
While this meme/picture is definitely exaggerated, the expansion of Israel far beyond its current borders is a political position held by members of the current government. It originates from early Zionist militias that aspired to capture these widespread borders.
It even caused an international incident some time ago. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-seeks-to-calm-waters-with-jordan-after-racist-extremist-speech-by-smotrich/
The Nazi ideology is alive and rules in Tel Aviv. They just changed who the supreme race is.
Doesn’t Lebanon shoot rockets at Israel? Like pretty frequently?
Yeah, while Israel has been invading and violating Lebanon’s airspace for much longer than they’ve been shooting rockets.
So not really “invading random countries” like the person I responded to said, right? They’ve been fighting
Yeah Israel should have been sanctioned a long time ago for their airspace invasions. If they proceed with a land invasion, they should be embargoed by the world.
By your logic though, Taiwan should be launching rockets into China because China regularly violates their airspace. It’s just not how normal countries interact with each other man, these people are psychos. Both sides
I just said Israel should be sanctioned. I haven’t made one comment on whether the rockets were good or bad.
I asked hasn’t Lebanon been firing rockets at Israel for a while - you said Israel invades their airspace (implying that firing rockets into Israel was justified)
Are people actually making excuses for Hezbollah?
Are people actually making excuses for Israel?
Are you serious? Hezbollah went in and gutted Lebanon of anything not of their version of “islamic” and think they are going to get sympathy. Why do you think so many people left Lebanon during the civil war (if you can even call it that)?
and Israel did even worse. Your point?
Israel is worse. Israel is the Jewish Isis.
Yikes.
Yes.
Are people actually making excuses for Israel?
You can’t really think of Lebanon as a country at this time. It’s a territory where several groups hold various amounts of power. Hzbollah is one of those groups. The “government”, or what passes for it is another.
Palestine isn’t a country. Lebanon isn’t a country. Excited to see Syria, Egypt, and Jordan suffer the same fate.
Palestine isn’t a country. It was offered statehood and turned it down. Lebanon is very much a country.
Palestine isn’t a country.
More countries recognize Palestine as an independent state than Taiwan.
It was offered statehood and turned it down.
It wasn’t offered statehood. It was offered a shell of bureaucracy under the boot of an occupying Israeli military.
Under the boot of an occupying Israeli military. You mean the one who had to build the iron dome becusse Arab states want/wanted to bomb it back to the stoneage?
Good for these countries recognizing it’s statehood, doesn’t make it true.
This is what colonial rhetoric in the 21st century looks like.
They’re doing the whole Nazi Germany playbook now
A two front war is never a good idea
A two front war is never a good idea
Not too sure tho, how bombing and starving civilians including children on a strip of land for 8-9 months qualifies as war, now that I think about it.
Fake news refuses to use the proper term…
They should never have done it in the first place, but seeing how it takes them so long to kill mostly unarmed civilians doesn’t exactly qualify them to attack another region, but whatever gets bibi to play the victim and the strong man at the same time and keeps his right wing friends happy, i guess.
No, now they’re going to actually go to war instead of bombing defenseless children. The other front would be Egypt if Sisi hadn’t sold his soul to Uncle Sam.
Can we please stop giving this insane bloodthirsty man and his sidekicks weapons and intelligence support?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–Syria–Iran–Iraq_coalition
If the US joins Israel, that pulls in Russia, Iran, Syria, Iraq, and since Russia and NK just did their deal. Likely NK as well.
AIPAC has bought off enough of both sides of the aisle, that our politicians will say we join.
This ain’t the same WW3 shit we’ve been hearing about since the 50s. This shit can pop off at any moment.
Israel isn’t acting rationally and Biden has repeatedly said he will support them under any possible circumstances. So what the fuck is going to happen?
Actual headline: America is ready for an all out war with Lebanon
US has been trying to prevent an Israeli-Hezbollah war. Even al Jazeera says this in the third sentence in the linked article.
nonsense. Israel does everything with American weapons. US wants more war, otherwise they would not be giving Israel so many weapons.
The US wants stability in the Middle East to keep the oil flowing.
Nonsense. If this was true, Israel would not be getting genocide support from thr US.
Gonna keep on disregarding any fact or logic that conflicts with the narrative, huh?
you are the one ignoring facts and believing in a fanstasy
I’m sure al Jazeera would have said the US has been trying to prevent an Israeli-Palestine war before the conflict happened. We can see what happened with that.
That would imply that al Jazeera knew October 7 was going to happen in advance. Is that what you’re saying? Or is October 7 such an inconvenience to the narrative you want to believe you’ve got a complete mental block on it?
How on earth would what I said imply that Al Jazeera knew that October 7th was going to happen lol. There’s been threats of war between the two for decades.
Ah, so you’ve got a mental block about October 7. Got it.
You didn’t answer the question.
Israel isn’t going to stop are they?
Why should they stop? They have the full U.S. M.I.C. to back them in whatever bullshit they want to do. If they can commit genocide with U.S. backing, then of course they can start wars with neighbors too.
We need to end our bizarre, expensive one-sided relationship with Israel. We get absolutely nothing out of it except headaches.
Seriously, what tf are they thinking?
Israel is thinking they can start any war they want because the U.S. will make sure they win. Netanyahu has repeatedly shown that the U.S. will do whatever he demands.
Israel: History repeats itself, it has been a quite 100 years, time for another of those great wars, World War, I think ot was called.
The war to end all wars, they called it
Oh great. That will help with everything.
Getting the bighead from all the big US funds they have to play with
Totally worth not having health care so we can support Israel starting wars around the Middle East.
-_-
Right now it’s just some tough talk from both sides. It’s possible for this to amount to something more than the normal levels of exchanging fire that’s been going on since October 7, but it’s doubtful.
Seems more likely Nasrallah just has to make some token effort to support Hamas to appease the rank and file. So he threatened Israel three days ago. Israel makes threats back now. Just another day in the Middle East.
Right now it’s just some tough talk from both sides
How do you know that? The Zionist settler colonialist side has been doing Genocide for the past 8-9 months, this is not as you say
Just another day in the Middle East.
And like Hitler, Netanyahu is unable to stop. And unlike Hitler he is not fighting and loosing battles. When Hitler started loosing in the front, part of his entourage tried to talk him out of it, without success. This is why, there was even an attempt to kill him from inside the Nazi party.
Netanyahu on the other hand, is not loosing battles since he is just bombing and starving people, while being supported in all possible ways by the US and most of the west. Why should he stop now? The Zionist plan of eliminating or displacing all Palestinians is working fine so far.
Netanyahu is so pumped up he could easily invade Lebanon. Also Israel has attacked Lebanon twice and got defeated twice in a humiliating way. Last time was in 2006, meaning not that long ago. This is why Netanyahu has such a beef with Hezbollah. I’m afraid that Netanyahu has been given so much support and leverage from the West, he’s about to start an actual war with Lebanon.
Another day, another thing for you to rage over, right? Gotta maintain that outrage or you might think about how horrible Hamas is.
Israel has never stopped killing people in Lebanon.
Israel will no stop untill every non-Jew is dead.
