Who is surprised?
If you cant uninstall the software, it isnt your computer. If you tell it to do something and it says no, it is not your computer.
I dont understand why people tolerate anything else. Its maddening.
Because they make it easy and do a few cool things.
“Do you want a mic in your home that can record everything you say and do and send that data off to wherever the company chooses?”
“No of course not.”
“What about of it will also turn your lights on and off and play despacito on demand?”
“You son of a bitch, sign me up”.
This is also the reason why typing on the TV is so bad and the remote has a huge microphone button on it.
Microsoft also wants to use 50 gigabytes of your hard drive space (for the Recall snapshots) and make you buy AI co-processors or their software won’t work. They want to use your property to create their own Skynet.
Soeaking of coprocessors…if it’s not in the cpu die, I wonder if we can just desolder the stupid AI chip.
Yeah they want you to pay for the hardware to train their crappy ai, pay for the OS so you can train their crappy ai, and then also provide your data to train their crappy AI.
And in return you get to use Windows.
I agree but technology hasn’t really been “ours” for a long time. Rooting, jailbreaking, and open source is the only way to take back a modicum of control.
On Arch you can easily uninstall Linux.
The fun part is that there are even legit reasons to do so, the by far most likely one being that you want to use a different package that provides you with a kernel, such as linux-lts or linux-hardened. Definitely know what you are doing in that case though!
Linux in general and Arch in particular are kinda laissez-faire in that they’ll allow you to shoot yourself in the foot. Some distros may put barriers in your way, others practically hand you the gun, but at the end of the day, the gun is freely available and it’s your own foot that you’re shooting.
Do you tolerate the TPM/fTPM in your computer? Can you deactivate it? Can you query it? Can you tell it to do something?
Yes, you can remove and interact with your TPM chip. I don’t know why you’re coming in so hot on this person, your last name Ballmer or something?
I don’t even know what that is
At this point, I think they are actively trying to drive us away.
The Elon Musk Maneuver.
It’s like the Picard Maneuver, but where you just warp straight in front of your enemy while simultaneously shitting yourself.
They will certainly succeed at driving some people away. I was a lifetime Windows user and I currently don’t have it installed on any of my machines now. I think the average Joe is blissfully unaware other than the occasional dialog about a new feature coming their way.
I think they are going to lose more of the hardcore tech community with decisions like these, but I don’t know that they care.
but the “hardcore tech community” guys are the IT guys of all companies. so this means a lot of the people who are in IT related meetings and have a say in which OSes to install will now be opposed to Win11. A lot will probably suggest waiting to hopefully be able to skip 11, but some will choose alternatives.
News flash, a lot of the hardcore tech community already used Linux and would’ve pushed for it in related meetings.
Using Windows isn’t a sign of advocacy, it’s a sign of legacy. Companies don’t want to swap and change things.
Right but if Windows is now becoming a problem then it’s a start. And so many software developers I know use MacBooks for their job and say that they’re just better for the work. Microsoft is hoping that the fear of change means they can do whatever they want, if they even have any thoughts in their thick heads at all that is, and don’t seem to realize that at some point even the most devoted users will have to face the fact that there are better options.
Fuck Windows, it’s such an ass product that’s only selling point right now that some key products don’t work on anything else simply because the developers of them don’t want to do the work and not because it has some magic sauce that a Mac or Linux machine doesn’t.
I hate being bothered. Linux, while overall almost botherless, still looses to windows.
But damn me, when Win 10 loses support, I am jumping to nobara. Win 11 seems to be win 10 with every addon being something I harbor dislike for.
Linux, while overall almost botherless, still looses to windows.
Been using mint for around 2 months and I would say this is pretty accurate. Pretty much every game I play works out of the box. Discord however crashes the whole system sometimes and I can’t figure out why. Would still recommend Linux over windows but you will for sure encounter more issues.
Try vesktop. Maybe that will help.
I do like the convenience of Windows and I’m still on W10, when it loses support I’ll be switching to Linux too.
In most situations i agree with you, but i think when it comes to the purchase of techie things (like which computers and OS a company should use) then the opinion of techies matters. Their opinion may not matter as much as it should, but in aggregate over time it can cause large changes in purchasing decisions
They don’t care and you really don’t matter in the big scope of things.
To be honest, they probably are. My pet theory is that they’re trying to do what do many politicians are doing - drive away everyone but the strongest base electorate that will stay with them no matter what they do. And then, the grift starts. I’m reasonably sure sooner rather than later they’ll start charging a subscription fee to use Windows, and people and companies will bend over and pay it…
There was a time when they did try to listen. Since 11 was being imagined, it all was downhill. I used to work for them and all messaging changed once 11 was being worked on
I did it! I did it over the long weekend. Been using Windows since 3.1 (albeit only switched fully from MSDOS when Windows 2000 came out).
I did a test run on my laptop during time away from home/desktop over the summer, using Linux Mint, to see if I can do work and school on an unfamiliar system exclusively. On Mint I never had to open the terminal and everything worked right out of the box. Cinnamon is very similar to Win10 too. Heck, I can’t even remember the installation procedure, it was so hands off and easy.
After two failed attempts of Arch on the same laptop, I’ve managed to install it with help of archinstaller on my main desktop. No idea what I’m doing, but I got it up and running to a state where I can do both work and school.
FUCK Windows and the constant nag it does everywhere. Good riddance.
Lol I misread this as you’d been relying on windows 3.1 and never upgraded but that 11 including recall made you switch to Linux. I need to be more thorough in my reading .
That’d be hard core. Alas, I don’t have balls of steel and/or a mushy brain like that.
I bet there’s still someone out there that makes it work somehow.
Lol i don’t doubt it. Some people get fixated and can’t be swayed.
Well done. Mint is the gateway drug, perfect for users like you. Progress and attempts with arch are noble though! Glad it didn’t scare you off.
It did! I just checked and I put it (arch) on the back burner for four months.
But yes, Mint and similar easy to install distros are the way to go for someone new for sure. Probably don’t even need to move on from it ever, as long as it works.
Good work getting through arch installer, it can be tricky too. I’ve been on arch for like 10 years and still don’t think anything else is better.
Not everything is as snappy as I’d like it to be yet. Maybe KDE Plasma is not the best for my 12 year old system. Been thinking I should have gone with the zen kernel.
But I’m having tons of fun while discovering it nonetheless.
Plasma needs a decent graphics card so that’s probably why. You can disable a lot of the effects in the control panel though but it may not help.
I guess the fastest desktop is xfce otherwise, it’s so fast that apps launches instantaneously. Reminds me of how fast computers can actually be without eye candy.
You can easily install and try it on arch to see if you like it. Good instructions in arch wiki as usual.
I applaud your bravery with Arch. Have some fun with it and don’t worry if you break stuff. Keep your files backed up and you’re golden! Even if you switch to a different distro later on, a lot of what you learn will translate 1:1.
I just really aimed for it due to the meme.
Good choice on Mint.
I have been using Linux exclusively (personal) since 2008, distro hopped for a few years then settled on Ubuntu, until they shot themselves in the foot with 22.04 and the snap debacle; moved to Mint (after trying Pop, MX and a few others).
I have to say a big well done to the Mint devs, it is better than Ubuntu ever was; part of this is newer drivers etc…but it is very polished and it gets out of my way and lets me do my work.
Been working with the various flavors of Windows in a work capacity over the same stretch, in my opinion windows peaked with XP, 7 was ok, and 10 is also ok. But it really has been down hill since XP was retired.
Yeah, XP was pretty good.
After a lot of back and forth between MSDOS/Win98SE (I used to play a lot of QuakeWorld which did not need much), I finally got an AMD Duron 800 around 2000, and someone recommend me Win2k. It was a really stable system, way ahead of its time in terms of user management and services compared to Win98SE and early XP. I think I’ve stayed on it well past it’s final release. I got sucked into WoW in 2008, so definitely had to move on by then.
To be fair, you never forget your first. Amiga workbench for the A500 was some of the best computing…
Yeah, XP was pretty good.
I was a young sysadmin during this era, I don’t know if I agree with this sentiment. It got tolerable by the time of the last service pack, but it was a security nightmare otherwise and didn’t offer much over Win2k.
That said, I’m not a Windows fan in general, but I’d class the following as the “good” ones:
- NT 3.5 (user-mode GDI FTW!)
- Phone 7.0 (this was probably what I’d call the Practically Perfect version of Windows. WP7 is just so good)
- NT 3.1 gets an honourable mention
- 8 (after WP7, this is the first version of Windows that was pretty much stable on day one. Say what you will about the UI, the core was the best Microsoft has ever one; ditto fir Server 2012)
- 10 (8 but with refinement; I’m cautious putting it here because you can see the genesis of the decisions that gave us 11)
- Vista (a lot of what people like about 7 really came from Vista, like the WDDM driver model and the improved security infrastructure; Vista, like NT, came out before hardware was commonly available that could run it)
Anchoring the bottom
- 98 & ME (IE integrated everywhere and the security nightmare it begat deserves a special place in hell)
- 1.0 (you had to be there, but this thing made Atari TOS look sophisticated)
- 95 pre-OSR2 (VxDs, DLLs and a login screen you could bypass with an escape key!)
- NT4 (it wasn’t bad, per se, but I still resent how unstable it was versus 3.5)
- CE and pre-5.0 Mobile (hey, guess what, replacing your battery wipes your device because we didn’t implement persistent storage!)
- 11 (10 without most of the redeeming features, plus an Android launcher for a Start menu. Now with extra spyware!)
A lot of people really like 7 and 2000, but I tend to think of those as polish releases of Vista and NT4. They’re Microsoft eventually fixing their mistakes, after having everyone drag on them for years.
I feel vindicated that Vista and 8 where my favorite as well.
Mint is great.
I use Linux Mint cinnamon on a daily basis, typically with one or two command line terminals open at all times (one normal and one in a docker container), and with some kind of code always open too. I use 4 monitors as well, which the same machine can’t handle when I boot into windows.
No apologies and no regrets. Being user friendly doesn’t mean it’s limited. It uses Ubuntu and Debian stuff after all, just with the controversial Ubuntu stuff removed.
I really love it on my laptop.
The only thing that scared me is its reliance on Ubuntu. I wonder if it can go beyond that some day somehow. Plus I wanted to try something different. I have no idea what I’m talking about btw.
They have LMDE that they maintain so that Mint can continue if Ubuntu ever goes away. And of course, some people choose to just run LMDE now.
Out of curiosity, which step in the arch install did you have issues with on your first two attempts?
Did mine a few weeks ago. The only part I’m stuck on is OneDrive, which I unfortunately need. I got access to my personal files but not the shared files. The other part is I still need to download all of my mods…which I am not looking forward to 😆 but let me just say it is so nice to have a computer that actually works! It’s older so it was getting impossibly slow.
Between Linux and the new IRS software I am feeling spoiled.
This is where we say switch to Linux, right?
Yeah but I think most of us have already… We are not many enough to matter though. Microsoft and Google will continue to do what they want with 99% of users.
If they keep going at this pace, even the average person will be sick of it. My company was already considering it (after some input from myself and a couple coworkers) after they first announced recall. We sometimes deal with sensitive information that we can’t share with anyone outside the company. Periodic screenshots, regardless of what Microsoft says they will do, is a huge security risk.
It still can be disabled in windows enterprise using a intune policy, at least.
Yeah this is all my company cared about. They trust that it will be disabled…
The way MS is headed, would it really surprise anyone if a faulty update accidentally re-enables it without telling you and cause a massive shitstorm, though? I‘m not sure how many companies are naive enough to have this sword of Damocles above their machines. Especially with that disastrous anti-hacker resolution by the UN on the way. Sure, there are a lot of companies that just don‘t care nearly as much as they should, but one massive leak with recall involved could be enough for thousands of them to switch.
Eh, I switched. I switched all of my lab’s computers, too, and my PhD students have remarked a few different times that Linux is pretty cool. It might snowball.
I don’t think Linux will displace Windows meaningfully any time soon, but I do think people underestimate the fact that most people don’t install their own OSs. They get people like you to do it for them.
The problem is like that xkcd comic about experts underestimating the common person’s knowledge in their field. Linux is still not user friendly enough for the vast majority of people. Linux users just don’t seem to understand that most people are in the “wtf is a distro?” level of knowledge and would absolutely panic at the mere sight of a terminal.
True. Most people wouldn’t know how to install windows. They use it because it’s preinstalled and works. It’s a lot of risk for the average user to attempt an install from media even if it’s well guided. There’s also the roadblock of having media for local backup and the migration of personal data to cloud obfuscating the access to the data even further.
It’s hard enough to get professionals to rtfm.
They don’t need to know what a distro is, the same way they don’t know the difference between Windows Enterprise, Professional, LTSC, etc.
If it’s not OEM, people like us are going to be the ones installing it for them anyway.
deleted by creator
I’ve used Linux for 20 years and don’t even know what MPV is without looking it up.
Pretty sure that’s not an issue for any average user.deleted by creator
Why would anyone need a replacement for VLC?
Also, Gnome, KDE, Xfce, LXQt all come with a video player out of the box that’s much better suited for newbies.
If you’re installing MPV, you’re looking for it and probably know why you want it.
It’s not “linux”’s job to be userfriendly, it’s up to the distro. Look at android, steam deck and chromebooks, three very userfriendly linux distros. Now we just need some billion dollar company to do what google and valve did with those for a desktop and we’re good to go.
False. The hard drive where Windows lives will soon find itself exiting my window
Ah the ol’ defenestration uninstallation.
Dewindowed
Nah, loot it for the magnets at least. Frisbee the platters, save the chassis for the scrap bucket (it’s solid aluminum).
Not use Windows 11 you say? Install Linux you say?!
Off is the direction in which I would like Microsoft to fuck if they think I’m gonna have a deep learning AI spy on my computer activity.
This just makes me want to switch to Linux.
Stop threatening. Commit. Take the leap. A lot of us here are already on the other side and we’ll help you find your footing.
And it is not scary. A simple distro like Mint, figure out where the software repositories live, how to use thr off8xe suite, and you’re done. Life is "great*.
Free software with no ads, and things that are built for purpose over profit. Going back to Windows is jarring when I use it now.
Do it. I made the switch a few months ago and its so much better
Anecdotally it hasn’t been that hard. I’ve had the best luck with Linux Mint just working straight out of the box. I basically only use my computer to game so your mileage may vary if you need specialized software or something.
Also the benefit of mint is that Ubuntu has a huge user base comparatively so you can find a lot of info online for people who have probably already figured out issues that you might encounter.
back up all your shit and move to linux. start with mint, thats the best one for total beginners imo
Do it.
Lots of support already but I made it switch in December last year and no regrets. There’s a bit of a learning curve getting used to a new environment but the computer actually becomes a tool you can shape to your needs rather than changing how you work so your computer will do it.
Try Fedora! I did and love it!
Hmm, I wonder if there could be an exploit where Recall is covertly turned on, so it can be used to exfiltrate data. Not a good idea to basically have a surveillance rootkit sitting passively on your system, with no ability to remove it, just waiting to get abused by attackers. But using this proprietary garbage OS nowadays isn’t a good idea in general and there is a much better alternative.
Malware developers don’t even need to have their malware running anymore to grab keylogs and screenshots.
Just enable Recall, schedule your malware for a month from now and it doesn’t even have to run anymore.
Windows does have its own command-line package manager. I don’t know if it can remove Recall, but last I checked it could remove Cortana. It would just get reinstalled soon after, but that could be prevented with some file-naming trickery. If you give a file the same name as the folder used to have and make it read-only, it couldn’t remake the folder and wouldn’t reinstall.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you can still do that now.
Which one do you mean? Winget which is their newest attempt at creating a package manager that isn’t an absolute piece of garbage, or their crappy CLI for managing MSIX/APPX modules? Because I remember using the latter to try and remove Cortana back when I first tried Windows 10. Fast forward, I removed all the garbage I didn’t need, applied a Windows update, restarted my PC and it was all reinstalled. I wiped that SSD the same day and went back to Linux. This was the last time I used Windows on any of my personal devices.
I was talking about Appx. I haven’t used Windows in a while, but that was how I got rid of Cortana. The key part was the read-only file named after the folder that couldn’t be replaced.
I’d say you didn’t actually remove the garbage. “Settings, apps, uninstall” doesn’t really get rid of it, the deployment package is still hanging around.
You need to use powershell to de-deploy those packages.
It’s a bit like the difference between “apt remove” and “apt purge”
You need to use powershell to de-deploy those packages.
Oh I did, I spent hours looking up different pwsh commands and package names to clean it all up
There’s always the Microsoft telemetry blocklist in pihole. If you can’t stop the computer collecting the data, you can stop MS getting hold of it.
It’s not a 100% guarantee, they can easily bypass your DNS by either just connecting to another DNS sever over plain, unencrypted DNS (UDP on 53), or use something more sophisticated like DNS-over-TLS or DNS-over-HTTPS.
You can reroute unencrypted DNS requests to your Pi-Hole using a firewall like OPNSense, but things get more complicated with DoT and DoH
I hope enough companies realize the inherent danger to their IP this feature brings. Or that the government realizes the inherent danger to CUI data and forces there to be an admin level lock of the feature so normal users can’t just turn it on.
I and many others can’t just switch to Linux because we are required to use company laptops/desktops that are admin locked.
Specially since there’s no Microsoft app that has ever securely functioned past a few days. This thing is gonna be hacked as soon as it comes out an we won’t know until until there’s an investigation into the accidental death of thirty innocent people as passengers in some vehicle somewhere controlled by windows 11 or something… Boeing re-entry vehicle maybe? Nah! You guys are good! Just jump in and come back home already!
Somewhere, some patent lawyers are going to make millions debating about whether or not this constitutes “public disclosure”.
If the US government bitching was enough to get the flight simulator easter egg removed from Excel (allegedly), I can’t imagine a similar stern glare from the Pentagon would not cause Recall to magically turn out to be uninstallable after all. At least from any US government owned computers originally so equipped.
Anyway, isn’t this only going to roll out on “Copilot” compatible PC’s with the requisite AI acceleration chips in them? I would be furthermore immensely surprised if it could not be locked out in Group Policy for corporate customers.
I can’t wait until the first breach caused by Recall hits the FCC. It’s definitely gonna happen.
I hope Khan is in charge of the FCC that catches it.
shouldn’t be doing personal stuff on work computer. let the company deal with recall if they don’t want their shit leaked.
They didn’t mention personal stuff
then he/she can let the organization decide about recall, it’s not up to him at this point unless he’s the owner. maybe the organization wants recall to further spy on employees and that’s a different reason to not work for them at that point.
That… that’s what they were saying, no? Companies should worry about their shit.
Windows Recall + Kernel level anti-cheat. How could it possibly go wrong, amirite?
Seems MS hasn’t learned from Crowdstrike
I’m in the process of switching to Linux on my main rig; still got a lot of shit to figure out but it’ll be worth it in the end.
And no, I’m not being a Linux fanboy, I’m just tired of being Microsoft’s bitch.
These labels are pointless anyway. Use tech that respects you as a user. Microsoft is not it.
And no, I’m not being a Linux fanboy
Most of us aren’t, we just get labeled as such for not being willing to use an OS that uses and abuses us
That’s how it starts. Gabba gabba we accept you, one of us, one of us.
Install Linux, it’s easier, leaner, faster than windows shit, it’s also free, does actual security, and won’t ever spy on you.
Send in the down votes
Does Lemmy not like Linux all of a sudden…?
There are more users now, some are tired of the Linux recommendations in every thread.
They are wrong of course and should just switch. :)
It’s not that, it’s mainly because they’re tired of being browbeaten and having their freewill raped by someone who is basically being just yet another marketer. A marketer that is pushing a free product. To them, it’s just one more obnoxious annoying ad that they have to deal with and block.
We fucking get it, Linux is there, they know. They aren’t switching in the numbers that you’re to meet, mr.free marketer. They just want you to shut the fuck up and leave them alone.
And that automatically puts you in the wrong everytime. So take your pompous attitude and choke on it.
Bit weird to be so angry about this. The commenter is not ‘basically just another marketer’ because they have nothing (financial or otherwise) to gain from others using linux. They genuinely believe it is a better product and it is in your interests to use it.
Direct your anger at Microsoft if you feel as though you are being forced to do anything, they the ones choosing to enshitify Windows, and removing it as a viable option.
When you’re going around on EVERY. SINGLE. MICROSOFT. THREAD. to say “GO ON LINUX! IT MAKES YOU HARD IN YOUR PANTS!” YOU are by and large, being a marketer. Just because you aren’t getting paid for it or aren’t directly affiliated, doesn’t remove that ability that you’re going around advertising for this product.
Bit weird to be so defensive on this and re-purpose what marketing is when you just outlined what marketing is like.
No I won’t direct my anger at Microsoft, don’t you tell me shit. I’m directing my anger at you and the OP because of shit like this with the whole Linux parade that always happens whenever anything is reported about Microsoft.
I would’ve thought that Linux usage going over 1% for once in a long time, would’ve been enough to shut you guys the fuck up. Guess not. Gotta inflate numbers. Gotta promote GROWTH!
So sick of you Linux clowning fanboys parading your free advertising. Bit weird of you to justify that, ain’t it? Bit weird.
Stop raping people’s free choice already, just stop. You don’t see Windows users telling Linux users to go use Windows, do you? No, you don’t.
Nobody is attacking your free choice, they’re literally trying to give you another option. That’s what free choice is all about.
If you are making an informed devision to remain with windows as it gets worse and worse, then that is up to you, but don’t come at people for trying to offer you an alternative just because you’ve made that decision.
Loser
Cry.
You think people choose Microsoft Windows because of free choice? You know it’s pre-installed on every computer right?
New users don’t make an active choice. Windows is default. Alternatives are better than windows, but must be recommended to users so they know about it.
Users being passionate about a free product because they love it… Is that marketing? There is no agenda here besides wanting to help other computer users not be exploited.
The behavior of big tech is unacceptable and users would not choose to be treated like that if they had an alternative. They just need to find out about that alternative. Linux users are really passionate about this because we know it’s an amazing operating system.
It’s not that, it’s mainly because they’re tired of being browbeaten and having their freewill raped
Ok. Stick with the company that’s forcing recall on you.
Okay, I’ll stick to an OS that currently don’t have that feature and still got a few years left of extensive support. Of which I’ll still be on said OS even if support truly ends, by which comes time to consider upgrading, Microsoft will already be on the next Windows version.
See how your blatant and baseless assumption falls apart? Idiot.
If only driver support was the same as in Windows, or if windows drivers other than networking ones can be used in Linux.
Well, not without also uninstalling Windows…
[ Insert “I see this as an absolute win!” meme here ]
Except I’m a gamedev, and I’ll have to keep around at least one Windows PC. Might be a Win10 one with extended support updates.
Oof. Yeah, I don’t use my computer for work, so I’d never even thought of that. That’s annoying.
I wonder if the advent of Windows 11’s “best” features will become known as “The Great Defenestration”
Didn’t they say the same thing about Internet Explorer, it was part of the OS and can’t be uninstalled or disabled…
Then, antitrust legal action against Microsoft and it turns out they can enable it being removable. Whoops!
They are doing a lot better about baking stuff in these days. If you uninstall edge on windows you unironically break a lot of systems, can’t even play Minecraft or use teams lol
Teams isn’t a loss, but MS are scumbag greifers for messing with my Minecraft.
Webview2 is the edge component that is assumed to be installed on all Windows computers. Unlike runtimes which a launcher could detect is missing and install, Webview2 doesn’t have a silent installed that can be bundled. The user must, by hand, go to a website, select their CPU architecture, and install it.
Anyways it’s clear that, at least within the Windows org, Microsoft is the new Oracle and teams are pointing guns at each other. Hopefully it dies quick to avoid this slow decay.
