• queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
      191·
      4 days ago

      Except the bottom track loops around to run over everyone else when the Supreme Court decides it wants to hurt more people.

      Let’s say the Supreme Court decides to end gay marriage at a federal level and send it back to the states. Harris won’t do shit to help people in red states, she’ll just tell them to vote for Democrats in 2026/2028 but otherwise ignore them.

      • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
        16·
        3 days ago

        Controlled opposition parties like the US democrats love to dangle these carrots during election seasons. Roe v Wade in red states was unrolled under Biden, while he held up his hands and said there was nothing he could do about it. But as soon as election season rolls around, they’re suddenly champions of women’s rights. If they were to actually do something about it, they’d no longer be able to campaign on it.

      • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
        121·
        3 days ago

        I’m starting to think now the trolley problem should be reframed as a catch-22 / false choice / manufactured consent.

        Who constructed this trolley? Why are there only two options shown? Do these options actually match reality? etc.

      • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
        313·
        4 days ago

        More of an intelligence test. “Do you understand the fact that inaction has consequences?” Helps separate adults from children.

        • halyk.the.red@lemmy.ml
          122·
          4 days ago

          Makes sense. As a grown adult, I also require overly simplistic illustrations in order to grasp concepts.

          • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
            311·
            4 days ago

            When you are filtering out the young, the dumb, and those arguing in bad faith, overly simplistic is an excellent first filter. If they can pass that base level filter of rudimentary critical thinking skills, then you can feel free to enter into more nuance and subtlety.

            No point in engaging with those who can’t even grasp the simplest concepts.

            • halyk.the.red@lemmy.ml
              103·
              4 days ago

              Seems like a bigger waste of time to just end up engaging with people who can vault over pictures, but can’t handle nuance.

              Start the discussion on an intellectual level, and those who can’t grasp it can go read until they’re ready to talk.

              Or they can go find someone else who will argue with cartoons or whatever, I’m sure they’ll be happier there.

              • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
                39·
                4 days ago

                When it comes to battling fascist-enabling rhetoric, I prefer as comprehensive an approach as possible. In truth, the circle jerk tankies and bad faith actors won’t be swayed by any amount of intellectual engagement. The goal isn’t to convince them, it’s to publicly counter their garbage takes in as simple and straightforward a way as possible, in order to avoid letting sincere but impressionable leftists fall for superficially reasonable looking moral imperatives.

    • bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net
      182·
      4 days ago

      I love the faith that the new Cheney DNC won’t turn on any non-muslim or immigrants minority… I’m old enough to remember the '92 campaign’s promises and then Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, Welfare “reform” and “The Death of Big Government.” A rightwing DNC is a greater threat than the GOP because the MSNBC and NYT set will applaud them, and the 70% of the DNC base who are partisan sheep will move their own politics to justify the party’s execution of “republican” policy

      • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
        109·
        4 days ago

        I’m old enough to remember this week when Trump promised Netanyahu free reign.

        • bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net
          142·
          4 days ago

          I’m old enough to remember today when Israel’s genocide continues with free reign under the current regime and the war criminal Anthony Blinken who will remain in power if Kamala wins and continue his Jewish supremacist campaign to eradicate all other races.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
            6·
            4 days ago

            Reporter: [REDACTED]
            Reason: Breaks Community Rules

            I don’t think “Jewish supremacy” is wrong here, but it’s a slippery term that can easily be taken as anti-Semitic if one isn’t very careful, or even if one is, because Zionists will always look for an excuse to call anti-Zionists anti-Semitic.

            • bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net
              4·
              4 days ago

              Just seems like one should call a spade a spade, it’s not some abstract academic concept, it’s a subgenre of white supremacy

              • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
                7·
                4 days ago

                Indeed. “Jewish supremacy” is another subgenre of imperial core chauvinism, like “white supremacy.” It is a settler-colonialist and imperialist ideology. Not every Jewish person is a Jewish supremacist, just as not every white person is a white supremacist.

            • bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net
              3·
              4 days ago

              I’ll believe it when I see it. If Kamala eeks out a win with a popular vote minority strategy like she’s running, a GOP house and senate is baked in, which means no confirmations, so if you don’t want to have an acting secretary of state for four years…

            • bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net
              92·
              4 days ago

              I honestly don’t know, I could see it go either way. Do you think it would have been substantively better under Hillary than Trump 2016-2020?

                • bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net
                  72·
                  4 days ago

                  You might not say that if you lived in [insert countries where Hillary would have started a destabilizing regional war]

                • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
                  2·
                  3 days ago

                  I think Hillary also wouldn’t have set the stage for fascist take over with judge appointments

                  Why not? Dem appointees do fashy things in a regular basis.

                  Everyone knows you should never havecaaked RBG to say anything about indigenous Americans.

                  endangered abortion rights

                  Dems endangered abortion rights under Obama by not crystallizing them in federal law or doing any fighting whatsoever for the Supreme Court. The overall Dem strategy actually benefits from this precarity. They want to use it to campaign on forever. Hillary was this kind of person.

                  Remember, under Obama, abortion rights had already been de facto removed in many red states. The Dobbs decision just added clarity to what was already the status quo, giving it ancillary legal weapons.

                  moved as far backwards on climate

                  Dems are just as bad on this. They push fracking and greenwashing and Biden has caused a crisis in solar panel availability with a sinophobic trade war. Both Obama and Biden prioritized oil and other fossil fuel production, making the US a better exporter. They just use different weapons to send money to the ruling class. One greenwaages it and the other doesn’t bother. Hillary was lockstep in this.

                  They are in many ways more effective because they keep you complacent and accepting of scapegoats.

                  and would have handled the pandemic better.

                  Biden demonstrably handled it worse. He normalized the ongoing pandemic (yes it is still happening), deconstructed the monitoring apparatus, and ended benefits. What would Clinton have done better?

    • linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml
      82·
      4 days ago

      u think voting for california’s ex head pig is gonna keep black people safe from pigs??? how does that work? how does continuing the “i think we can all agree what we need is to found the police” regime make black people safe from pigs?

      Also how would republicans be worse than Palestinians than the continuation of a regime currently led by a self proclaimed non jewish zionists.

      also also democrats could have and did nothing to protect womens bodily autonomy and they have done next to nothing for lgbtq people or any other oppressed peoples for that matter.

      but non of that matters there is regime in power which is genocidal which has done everything in its power to support and aid a genocide, u can either support it or not, that is all.

      • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
        62·
        3 days ago

        That, and also they drew the picture in a way that makes genocide of palestinians inevitable. Genocide is not inevitable, no matter how much US democrats think it is, and tell everyone to get in line behind it.

        Its so easy to construct trolley problems that have nothing to do with reality, and don’t represent the options actually available, or even the problem / scenario correctly.

    • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
      188·
      4 days ago

      Who do you think the “someone else” is here? Are you so desperate to scream “But Trump!” at any specific criticism of Harris that you have discarded basic reading comprehension?

  • gencha@lemm.ee
    1317·
    4 days ago

    I’m starting to feel like this genocide straw man is truly their strongest argument. Like, is that going to make me forget the other option wants to turn the country into a dictatorship?

    You seriously want to bring up genocide to play a “lesser of two evils” game, when one evil is Trump? GTFO

    • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
      165·
      4 days ago

      Do us a favor and say this verbatim to every Arab and Muslim American you meet. They need to know what liberals and Democratic voters think of them. The issue is clearly not just Biden or Harris being anti-Arab and pro-genocide but an entire party and its base.

    • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
      82·
      3 days ago

      First of all, it should not require 1D chess logic for you to have a red line at genocide. That should be enough for you to take pause and be absolutely certain that you know what you are talking about. If you’re dabbling in this, it should mean you just spent at least the last year reading extensively on genocide, history, Palestine, and political power and strategy. And yet you just use the usual , self-defeating, lesser evil talking point. That is how little concern you have for Palestinians facing genocide.

      But let’s say you weren’t just pretending to care about strategy. Let’s say you are you ten years from now feeling, correctly, like you did something very wrong and this has led you to be curious about how to build power, so you begin to critically engage with the propaganda you have been sold your entire life. Pretty shameful that you didn’t so it when brown people faced genocide, but here we are.

      Your logic is that you must always support your party candidate, who is allegedly some measurable amount better, even while doing a genocide, than the other with any chance of winning the election. You’re just minimizing harm, right?

      Well no. What you are doing is taking what little leverage you have in your vote and saying, “I will never stand for anything, I will vote for you no matter what horrible things you do”. And your political class, the one in your faction, is glad for this. You have done what you were told, you have made yourself a suppirter that expects nothing, just a cog in their genocidal machine. Four years roll around and you are somehow surprised that your team has moved farther right, done the same kinds of things, or done them worse, or done more if the worst things. Maybe it turns on trans people, as it is doing in Texas by supporting a transphobic candidate. Or immigrants, which Dems already did. You wonder how we got here and then tell everyone “vote blue no matter who, the Republicans are worse!”

  • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
    1115·
    4 days ago

    The problem is that Trump would be worse. If Kamala wins, THEN you apply pressure. You don’t help the guy who praises Hitler, and promises to punish his enemies “from within” the day he takes office. This also isn’t the only issue by a landslide, considering Trump wants to dismantle NATO, and defund the support sent to Ukraine.

    • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
      113·
      4 days ago

      I voted for Biden in 2020, what pressure could I have applied to stop the genocide?

      You don’t seem to realize that the US/Biden/Democrats have lost the moral high ground a year ago. I honestly believe Biden is a worse criminal than Putin.

    • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
      61·
      3 days ago

      If Kamala wins, THEN you apply pressure.

      How? This is not the kind of thing anyone that cares about pressure or leverage says. Electorally you have the most leverage, as an individual, before the election, not after it.

      Do you ever question what you are told to do by the party?

      You don’t help the guy who praises Hitler,

      Kamala Harris is supporting a genocide.

      and promises to punish his enemies “from within” the day he takes office.

      You mean with cops and feds? Maybe violence against and suppression of protesters? Maybe labelling Palestinian solidarity organizations as terrorists? Maybe signing an EO to allow “the military to use " lethal force” on citizens in the US.

      Your “good cop” is already doing that. You just approve.

      This also isn’t the only issue by a landslide

      What’s the issue? Can you describe it?

      considering Trump wants to dismantle NATO

      That would be an unmitigated good for humanity. Sometimes Dem voters make great arguments for Trump. Good thing we have principles.

      defund the support sent to Ukraine

      The people of Ukraine suffer due to a decade-long US pressure campaign to use them to harass and bait Russia. After Russia invaded, the people of Ukraine are now used as inputs to a meat grinder because the US’ goal remains to hurt Russia, not help Ukraine. The US escalated in the first place and then scuttled peace talks.

      The best thing for the people of Ukraine would be to end the war diplomatically ASAP.