• Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Israel isn’t all Jews, doesn’t represent all Jews, and it’s legit antisemitic to say that it is.

    You are the one sounding antisemitic.

    • mintyfrog@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      For the same reason that it was Islamaphobic for the US to invade Iraq, it is antisemitic for you to say “death to Israel” while Hamas is killing Israeli civilians and saying “death to Israel.” We cannot ignore the context of racial/religious tensions and the fact that these nations have racial/religious majorities.

      • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        The state of Israel is a genocidal ethnostate, that is the context for the tensions. Israel kills way more Palestinian civilians every day, and has been long before October 7. Before the European colony arrived, Jews, Christians and Muslims co-existed in Palestine.

        For the same reason that it was Islamaphobic for the US to invade Iraq, it is antisemitic for you to say “death to Israel”

        This is a bit of a nonsequiter. The US is islamaphobic, and the Iraq invasion was criminal, informed by chauvanism, orientalism, and islamophobia, but it’s hardly the equivalent of an occupied people resisting that occupation.

        May they all be free from the river to the sea someday.

        • mintyfrog@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          state of Israel is a genocidal ethnostate

          You’re now admitting that Israel is a Jewish state despite trying to claim otherwise for this entire thread.

          Israel kills way more Palestinian civilians every day

          Two wrongs don’t make a right. Israel is doing horrible things, but it doesn’t deflect from the fact that “death to Israel” is antisemitic.

          Before the European colony arrived, Jews, Christians and Muslims co-existed in Palestine.

          Well, they aren’t coexisting now. Sorry, can’t go back in time. We solve problems of today because it is impossible to make things the way they once were. And which “European colony” are you referring to? The Jews? I thought this wasn’t about them? Dog whistle.

          the Iraq invasion was … informed by … islamophobia

          But by your own logic, I thought a government is different from the major racial/religious group of its people? We can’t say it was Islamaphobic just because the people there tend to be majority Muslim, right? We’d need other context, like… above.

          hardly the equivalent of an occupied people resisting that occupation

          I never said that Palestine doesn’t have a right to resist its occupation.

          You’ve taken this argument far away from “death to Israel” not being antisemitic because you’re trying to argue that Palestine should exist. I’m not saying it shouldn’t, but it doesn’t make you not antisemitic.

          • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            state of Israel is a genocidal ethnostate

            You’re now admitting that Israel is a Jewish state despite trying to claim otherwise for this entire thread.

            I’ve only responded to you a couple times, and all I said is that Israel is not all jews, does not speak for all jews, and is a genocidal ethnostate.

            Saying death to an ethnostate does not mean death to the people in it, same as death to america doesn’t literally mean all americans should die.

            This isn’t that hard.

            Israel kills way more Palestinian civilians every day

            Two wrongs don’t make a right. Israel is doing horrible things, but it doesn’t deflect from the fact that “death to Israel” is antisemitic.

            One of those parties is a colonial occupier, the other an occupied people resisting state violence. I can support one and not the other.

            You’ve taken this argument far away from “death to Israel” not being antisemitic because you’re trying to argue that Palestine should exist. I’m not saying it shouldn’t, but it doesn’t make you not antisemitic.

            Death to Israel is not antisemetic, because despite the europeans wrapping it in the trappings of jewishness, it isn’t all jews, doesn’t speak for all jews.

            Israel systematically disenfranchises non-jews and sterilizes non-white jews.

            • mintyfrog@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Saying death to an ethnostate does not mean death to the people in it

              It does when civilians are being killed.

              One of those parties is a colonial occupier, the other an occupied people resisting state violence. I can support one and not the other.

              Your support for Palestine doesn’t make “death to Israel” not antisemitic.

              Death to Israel is not antisemetic, because despite the europeans wrapping it in the trappings of jewishness, it isn’t all jews, doesn’t speak for all jews

              Just because Israel doesn’t represent all Jews doesn’t absolve you of antisemitism for wishing death upon Israel. It is majority Jewish, and just above you have stated that the problems are all caused by the “European colony” of Jews. You’re mad at Israel because of those Jews, but not the Jews you like? This was common Nazi apologist rhetoric under Hitler.

              Israel systematically disenfranchises non-jews and sterilizes non-white jews.

              1. The story isn’t as simple as you’ve described it.
              2. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
              • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Fake ass settler state getting defended by the bigger fake ass settler state.

                Occupied people can resist occupation by any means necessary.

                • mintyfrog@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Occupied people can resist occupation by any means necessary.

                  No. You can’t start killing civilians just because other civilians or their parents or their grandparents or or their racioethnic group or their government have taken land that belonged to you or your family’s ancestry or your racioethnic group or your government.

                  • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    What a convenient opinion for an American to have lol

                    You’re parked on a mountain of corpses on stolen land saying that might makes right

              • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                You’re mad at Israel because of those Jews, but not the Jews you like? This was common Nazi apologist rhetoric under Hitler.

                I’m mad at Israel because of the genocide it is predicated on.

                Non white Jews have been sterilized there, it’s got far more in common with the Nazis than any other state besides America

            • mintyfrog@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              No, but it does make you a stereotyping asshole, the same kind that might wish death upon a racioethnic group for the actions of a government