Inspired by recent discussions, I think Hexbear has a lot of good information about socialism but I wonder if the relentless defense of AES on Hexbear means shooting ourselves in the foot, since many potential leftists have been thoroughly primed to react negatively to AES states?

We’re not getting our messages out when progressive instances have already pre-emptively blocked us and calling us “tankies”.

People are being turned away without even taking the opportunity to read some of the stuff here, because they already have a pre-conceived notion about Hexbear being filled with “crazy tankies who defend totalitarianism”.

I know there have been a lot of propaganda and fabrication being perpetuated about socialist countries, and it feels “right” to defend them against these false accusations, but I wonder if this is doing more harm than good for the present day nascent socialist movement, at least in the Western countries?

We can remain on the current course and feel indignant about the tankie accusations, but will forever remain as a niche “tankie” community.

Or, we can open ourselves up, by toning down the admiration for the socialist states so we are not being treated as hostile by the other instances, and thus opening up the opportunities to have productive interactions with users (and potential leftists) from other instances?

(I do have my own position, you probably know which one it is, but I’m willing to hear from others and reevaluate my own opinions if needed).

EDIT: Thanks to everyone who responded. All points are well taken. Thank you.

  • anarchoilluminati [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    11·
    10 months ago

    I actually just asked a related question in another post in an attempt to learn so I want to genuinely ask what you think were mistakes of the USSR?

    I don’t think USSR was at all fascist, for the record.

    • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      8·
      10 months ago

      Oh my bad those are scare quotes around the terminology. “Marcyist” is another one that shows someone is really from another era of punching left and likely works for a think tank.

      This is a huge tangent but I was searching the keyword “leftbook” on here and some of the descriptions kind of fit what I think OP wants. It sounds worse than r/stupidpol.

      You literally can’t have a coherent discussion of shit if you allow people to casually regurgitate everything CNN or Fox tells them. There’s nothing about the liberal fixation on democracy that makes anything Hitler wanted impossible.

      • anarchoilluminati [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        3·
        10 months ago

        Oh my bad those are scare quotes around the terminology. “Marcyist” is another one that shows someone is really from another era of punching left and likely works for a think tank.

        Oh, there’s no reason for you to apologize. Maybe we’re misunderstanding one another. I also dislike thinking of USSR as red fascism, but also genuinely curious about a critical approach to its mistakes as seen from the Left.

        You literally can’t have a coherent discussion of shit if you allow people to casually regurgitate everything CNN or Fox tells them. There’s nothing about the liberal fixation on democracy that makes anything Hitler wanted impossible.

        Israel and Ukraine are currently great examples of that being very true.

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          7·
          10 months ago

          The USSR shouldn’t have re-banned abortion, shouldn’t have re-criminalized homosexuality (Stalin was personally pretty homophobic, it seems), shouldn’t have let Trotsky live, and plainly failed to figure out how to reconsolidate the Party leadership after all the shit that went down with a certain splitter and his opposition bloc and the chaos of the great purge.

          Past 1953, the list gets much longer, but that’s because Marxists had lost control and revisionists had taken over the central committee (though many were still [inadequate] socialists). Obviously that wasn’t exhaustive of pre-1953 issues either. Lenin had an impossible task and state capitalism seems to have been a failure to properly account for class antagonism forming a bureaucracy, but still made great progress and his and Stalin’s mistakes were nothing compared to those of the subsequent leadership.