It’s particularly upsetting because lemmy.ml is a major instance. IMO, moderation in this c/ is infrequent and underwhelming. I don’t mean to hang the mods out to dry; it would take a big team to wade through this effluent and tame the trolls. The hostile “Here comes the Reddit refugees” and “OMG Tankie brigade” shit is just the easy stuff. A rule on lazy whataboutism would help the signal/noise ratio as well. This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation. Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
“My post is about black crime, stop mentioning other things like white crime. Yes, I only post about black crime, are you trying to say black people never commit crime? That they should be allowed to commit crime? Thought so.”
Sometimes bringing up context is important for discussing issues that some people would like to keep in a vacuum. The US competing at those same Olympic games under no penalty would be fucked up and makes it obvious that if Belarus was penalized here, it would be due to western politicking and nothing else (Russia already has the doping issue, so idk about that one)
No, you’re not helping. At all. It’s flamebait that can only derail the topic and turn into a circle jerk or verbal fistfight.
Here’s an example that may help: Why is China allowed to participate in the Olympics despite their genocides and brutal crackdowns? Why the double standard?
I’m sure china is rounding up its citizens and putting them into reeducation camps based on their ethnicity and religious beliefs for reasons other than ethnic cleansing.
Being left wing doesn’t mean you absolutely must support china, especially since a lot of chinese policies are decidedly right wing and almost overwhelmingly authoritarian.
Like nost other “communist” parties in power before them, the CCP is populated mostly by self interested bourgeois that coopted the revolution and pursued a path of oppression against its own people.
Authoritarians gonna authoritate, who’d have guessed.
Saved. Thanks for the comprehensive resource. Now, if only everyone was eager to read before slandering other countries online… Not that China is a perfect utopia, but simply gobbling whatever information comes to the public by media that have an interest in defending “the West” is the quickest path to have your consent manufactured.
This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation.
the ‘punishment’ of russia is night and day to what we saw happen to the US and its western allies after the invasion of iraq. you can go and cry about ‘whataboutism’ as much as you’d like, but those of us who live in a world not shrouded by a willful amnesia of a past historical events can see the gross display of hypocrisy for what it is—namely a confirmation by the western world that some victims (of war) are worth more than others
Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
When your entire schtick is anti-westernism then yeah it is that hard. I really don’t mind the comrades at lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, they generate some thought provoking content at times. However their blind, predictable, and endlessly repeated talking points are tiresome in the same way that an invasion of Fox News viewers would be.
This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation. Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
This is why so many instances defederate from hexbear, they do this in every comment section. Just turn it into whataboutism against the US, and add nothing to the topic that’s actually being discussed by the article. They’re basically lemmygrad but brigade comment sections more often.
Brigading is their entire purpose for existence on this site, they actively plot to harass and invade other instances to deny people a platform and talk about where to spread their “forces” next. They were taking bets on where they’ll be defederated next. They were never on this platform to participate in good faith.
This isn’t about their political views in particular, this is about them brigading comment sections and derailing from the original topic and shouting down anybody who disagrees.
Defederation because of political views is, frankly, dangerous for democracy.
What? This is such a ridiculous claim I’m not even sure where to start. Federation does not equal democracy, and defederation from a shitty spammy instance has zero impact on democracy.
Defederation is not censorship. All it means is that nobody on that instance wants to hear your bullshit, and are showing you the door. You’re able to make an account on another federated instance if you wanted to hear those vitriolic, harmful people.
There’s about as much discourse here as rival football hooligans having it out in the streets. A lot of violence but it doesn’t really change the score. What’s the point of talking when no one’s listening?
Re: “dangerous for democracy”. That’s a little hyperbolic, don’t ya think?
I don’t support defederation. I think the calls for defederation strictly arise from political clashes that boil out of control and people that don’t remember the Internet-that-was, before Reddit. “Free speech absolutist” wasn’t a thing because no one pictured their little forum as mattering that much. Forum moderation wasn’t about enforcing a specific world view or preserving an echo chamber, it was about preserving civil discourse. And since I’m typing this out I might as well add that I think if I was to dust off an early 90’s or 2000’s mod hat, I’d do the following:
Referring to other commenters as reddit refugee/hexbear/liberal/grad/imperialist/shill/anti-westerner 's is a 3 day ban
Bringing up the Iraq War, Tienanmen Sq, etc is a 3 day ban. Not some conspiracy to bury the truth. It’s because everyone’s friggin’ heard it already and we definitely don’t need more of it.
Lazy whataboutism is a 1 day ban. This is vaguely defined for a purposeful chilling effect.
War Is Bad. When not the topic of the article, fantasizing about a US-Ruso conflict/popular uprising/Taiwan invasion/WW3 is a 1 day ban.
What do people want this place to be? A place where all sides can meet (if they strictly behave)? An echo chamber? A raging angry gladiator pit? Like I said above, as a major Lemmy instance, this place should be downright boring and the extremists can retreat to other instances better suited to their anger.
It’s particularly upsetting because lemmy.ml is a major instance. IMO, moderation in this c/ is infrequent and underwhelming. I don’t mean to hang the mods out to dry; it would take a big team to wade through this effluent and tame the trolls. The hostile “Here comes the Reddit refugees” and “OMG Tankie brigade” shit is just the easy stuff. A rule on lazy whataboutism would help the signal/noise ratio as well. This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation. Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
“My post is about black crime, stop mentioning other things like white crime. Yes, I only post about black crime, are you trying to say black people never commit crime? That they should be allowed to commit crime? Thought so.”
Sometimes bringing up context is important for discussing issues that some people would like to keep in a vacuum. The US competing at those same Olympic games under no penalty would be fucked up and makes it obvious that if Belarus was penalized here, it would be due to western politicking and nothing else (Russia already has the doping issue, so idk about that one)
No, you’re not helping. At all. It’s flamebait that can only derail the topic and turn into a circle jerk or verbal fistfight.
Here’s an example that may help: Why is China allowed to participate in the Olympics despite their genocides and brutal crackdowns? Why the double standard?
See? You’re demonstrating my point, it’s not just indifferent, it has a motive.
Though I don’t think you’re helping since Russia did invade while China is doing zero genocides.
https://xinjiangahr.carrd.co/
I’m sure china is rounding up its citizens and putting them into reeducation camps based on their ethnicity and religious beliefs for reasons other than ethnic cleansing.
Being left wing doesn’t mean you absolutely must support china, especially since a lot of chinese policies are decidedly right wing and almost overwhelmingly authoritarian.
Like nost other “communist” parties in power before them, the CCP is populated mostly by self interested bourgeois that coopted the revolution and pursued a path of oppression against its own people.
Authoritarians gonna authoritate, who’d have guessed.
Saved. Thanks for the comprehensive resource. Now, if only everyone was eager to read before slandering other countries online… Not that China is a perfect utopia, but simply gobbling whatever information comes to the public by media that have an interest in defending “the West” is the quickest path to have your consent manufactured.
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the ‘punishment’ of russia is night and day to what we saw happen to the US and its western allies after the invasion of iraq. you can go and cry about ‘whataboutism’ as much as you’d like, but those of us who live in a world not shrouded by a willful amnesia of a past historical events can see the gross display of hypocrisy for what it is—namely a confirmation by the western world that some victims (of war) are worth more than others
When your entire schtick is anti-westernism then yeah it is that hard. I really don’t mind the comrades at lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, they generate some thought provoking content at times. However their blind, predictable, and endlessly repeated talking points are tiresome in the same way that an invasion of Fox News viewers would be.
This is why so many instances defederate from hexbear, they do this in every comment section. Just turn it into whataboutism against the US, and add nothing to the topic that’s actually being discussed by the article. They’re basically lemmygrad but brigade comment sections more often.
Yeah, hexbear is trashy authority propaganda.
Brigading is their entire purpose for existence on this site, they actively plot to harass and invade other instances to deny people a platform and talk about where to spread their “forces” next. They were taking bets on where they’ll be defederated next. They were never on this platform to participate in good faith.
Instances defederate from hexbear because of emoji spam more than anything else.
Defederation because of political views is, frankly, dangerous for democracy.
This isn’t about their political views in particular, this is about them brigading comment sections and derailing from the original topic and shouting down anybody who disagrees.
What? This is such a ridiculous claim I’m not even sure where to start. Federation does not equal democracy, and defederation from a shitty spammy instance has zero impact on democracy.
And also don’t forget the mass spam of oversized emojis and pictures of pigs shitting.
Democracy is built on discourse of opposing views. If we just censor all opposing views, then what the fuck is even the point?
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Yet, people with these political views do exist in our society. We need to find a way to integrate them into society, not isolate them.
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Defederation is not censorship. All it means is that nobody on that instance wants to hear your bullshit, and are showing you the door. You’re able to make an account on another federated instance if you wanted to hear those vitriolic, harmful people.
There’s about as much discourse here as rival football hooligans having it out in the streets. A lot of violence but it doesn’t really change the score. What’s the point of talking when no one’s listening?
Re: “dangerous for democracy”. That’s a little hyperbolic, don’t ya think?
I don’t support defederation. I think the calls for defederation strictly arise from political clashes that boil out of control and people that don’t remember the Internet-that-was, before Reddit. “Free speech absolutist” wasn’t a thing because no one pictured their little forum as mattering that much. Forum moderation wasn’t about enforcing a specific world view or preserving an echo chamber, it was about preserving civil discourse. And since I’m typing this out I might as well add that I think if I was to dust off an early 90’s or 2000’s mod hat, I’d do the following:
What do people want this place to be? A place where all sides can meet (if they strictly behave)? An echo chamber? A raging angry gladiator pit? Like I said above, as a major Lemmy instance, this place should be downright boring and the extremists can retreat to other instances better suited to their anger.