• masquenox@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    NATO is about as “defensive” as the US’s arsenal of nuclear weapons is “defensive.”

    Not something I’d ban you for, though - until you start acting like a shitlib.

    • antidote101@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      It looks a lot like you’re trying to alienate other leftists from your position, rather than actually make any reasonable arguments for your own beliefs.

      Don’t you ever feel like you’re betraying your own beliefs when you go for over simplified attacks.

      Like using “liberal” as an insult… I mean, it suggests your preferred ideology would be a kind of fascism or authoritarianism. Something without social liberalism.

      I mean, you’re obviously frustrated and a believer that any serious discussion would be futile… So why not just walk away rather than damaging your own political position?

      Haven’t you learned how to argue your positions using someone else’s values?

      Just seems like you’re the biggest liberal, like you’re doing a big show of the freedoms of political discourse, showing how you’re free to be rude. Showing you’re openly avoiding constructive discussion, and not realising that’s still discussion.

      It’s a very liberal thing to do.

      …and I’m not sure of the purpose but it doesn’t seem to be bolstering any other political position. Just seems to reproduce a culture in which the far left are under represented and seen as unreasonable. One where it’s seen as just and right to not have a popular Marxist party and to lock that particular rhetoric out.

      Why so blatantly lean into the agenda that’s so obviously what economic liberals prefer. Doesn’t that just enforce the hegemonic false consciousness that works against you and your politics???

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        It looks a lot like you’re trying to alienate other leftists

        What leftists?

        Like using “liberal” as an insult…

        That’s because it is an insult.

        Something without social liberalism.

        Yes, please.

        and not realising that’s still discussion.

        Good thing you told me, then.

        Just seems to reproduce a culture in which the far left are under represented and seen as unreasonable.

        There is such a thing as a “far left” now? Where’d you get that from? PragerU?

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Yes, clearly you guys keep losing because of the DNC, not because of your inability to create alliances and earn everyone else’s votes.

      Remember, if a candidate needs to earn your vote, then your favored candidate needs to earn their votes too. You’ll find it difficult to do so while you keep burning bridges.

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Yes, clearly you guys keep losing because of the DNC

        Ummmm… okay?

        not because of your inability to create alliances and earn everyone else’s votes.

        Right.

        then your favored candidate needs to earn their votes too.

        Uh-huh.

        You’ll find it difficult to do so while you keep burning bridges.

        Most interesting, I’m sure.

        Will you be saying anything relevant any time soon?

        • antidote101@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Will you be saying anything relevant any time soon?

          Hawt dawg, we have an edgelord!

          Character A): What is it you believe yourself to be rebelling against?

          Character B): Whaddya got?

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          For you, probably not. What I said is for people who actually want to see leftist change happen, not for people who just want to scream and win against liberals even if it means empowering fascist authoritarians.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            What I said is for people who actually want to see leftist change happen,

            It’s always a good idea to actually understand terms before throwing them around.

            Specifically, in your case, your misuse of the term “leftist,” liberal.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Oh, you misunderstood. I was referring to the socialists and bona fide leftists who are actually trying to accomplish their goals and ideals.

              As opposed to you, who prefers to be right and own the libs at all costs, versus actually seeing their professed ideals become a reality.

              By the way, throwing terms around meaninglessly is also a bad idea. At this point I have no idea what you mean by liberal, because it seems to be “anyone who disagrees even a little bit with me”.

              • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                I was referring to the socialists and bona fide leftists

                Sooo… people you wouldn’t recognize if they were standing right underneath your nose, then.

                At this point I have no idea what you mean by liberal,

                No, I guess you don’t.

                Do you wanna know why we call the far right the “far right?”

            • oatscoop@midwest.social
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              7 months ago

              You sound just like the Donald Trump supporters I’ve met online: the style of “argument” and even the “insults” are identical.

              What a coincidence.

              • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Come now, liberal… are you too politically incompetent to explain your little liberal joke to me?

                Try not to disappoint.

                • antidote101@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  I think they’re referencing your using an assumed ideological generality/commitment (“liberal”) to refer to someone in response to a common albeit somewhat tiresome joke.

                  It looks a lot like you were trying to be dehumanizing, rather than constructively asking the person a question. Most people understand that asking a question or entering into honest discussion requires some generosity, do it’s only human nature that people detected when none or the opposite is given.

                  You know, that choice, the choice to demean people by ideology - seems to tie into to common fears about Marxist and Socialist systems… That they’re authoritarian or would be “once the mask was dropped and they gained any sort of power”

                  …and that seems to be the appearance you would prefer to perpetuate. You’re doing Capitalism’s work for free. You’re actively reproducing the cultural mindset you’ve been allocated in its system.

                  • oatscoop@midwest.social
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                    7 months ago

                    Remove their professed ideology and the people that choose to be dumb, arrogant, angry, tribalistic assholes are all indistinguishable. The way they act, speak, and think are identical.

                    My point was “this is the kind of person you’re choosing to be.”

        • sparkle@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          what exactly does “liberal” mean to you? what makes some socialist a “lib” as opposed to a pureblooded leftist hero?

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            There is no such thing as a “socialist” liberal because there is no such thing as an anti-capitalist liberal - once you cross over into anti-capitalist - ie, socialist - territory, you automatically become anti-liberal, too.

            • antidote101@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Again, your goal seems to be tracing a very small territory which will obviously be rejected by most… It’s as if that’s your aim is to be more radical and exclusive “than thou”.

              To me this is no different to the billionaire bragging about his particularly libertarian agenda, or extremists Randian “egoic motivations”.

              Its aim is to perform and adopt an assigned cultural position in order to reproduce the dominant cultural hegemony; positioning and imparting the awareness of the majority population’s moral imperative to avoid both positions as ugly and extremist, and hence their righteousness for staying away from both.

            • sparkle@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              Throughout your comments there are quite a few people who are blatantly socialist, and people who say very anti-capitalist things that may be socialists, who you have called a lib. It just seems you perceive it as an insult towards people who hold different beliefs, rather than describing capitalists… not to say that the specific OP here isn’t a capitalist, but some of the others definitely aren’t.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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                7 months ago

                I wouldn’t count myself as a capitalist, personally. I may be more amiable to short-term solutions that acknowledge that we are still in a capitalist society, but I see an investor-driven economy as ruinous to both itself and democracy, and not something that can be sustained in a truly democratic society.