• JASN_DE@lemmy.world
    334·
    2 months ago

    Reporting is done by users who voluntarily upload their system specs via
    # hw-probe -all -upload

    So not skewed at all…

    • KISSmyOSFeddit@lemmy.worldOP
      151·
      2 months ago

      Do you have a better way of measuring it?
      In what direction would voluntary self-reporting of all system specs skew the display server statistic (and why)?

      • atzanteol@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        222·
        2 months ago

        Do you have a better way of measuring it?

        No better way of measuring doesn’t mean this is a good way of measuring.

            • refalo@programming.dev
              0·
              2 months ago

              Well do you want useful stats or not /s

              But seriously, a lot of opt-in (that never get opted in to) data is insanely useful for developers, but it has such a bad stigma that we never get anywhere close to the amount of usefulness a larger dataset could provide.

          • atzanteol@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            0·
            2 months ago

            A method that attempts to collect data from a randomized or representative population rather than relying on self-report.

      • refalo@programming.dev
        0·
        2 months ago

        Because a huge portion of the people willing to do this are already on Wayland, but I believe there exists an even larger percentage on X that are not submitting any data.

        And another commenter said:

        We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.

        • onlinepersona@programming.devEnglish
          0·
          2 months ago

          Because a huge portion of the people willing to do this are already on Wayland, but I believe there exists an even larger percentage on X that are not submitting any data.

          What is the basis for that assumption?

          And another commenter said:

          We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.

          So because one cannot know which type of people submit data to the site it should be disregarded? That’s basically saying any poll or questionnaire with anonymous yet unique answers are invalid. That’s a pretty bad argument.

          Anti Commercial-AI license

    • Vilian@lemmy.ca
      34·
      2 months ago

      err, why? actually it can be skewed against wayland(wayland users tend to be more security aware), and why the suprise, KDE, GNOME are wayland from the get go, steam deck too, hyprland and sway etc

      • atzanteol@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        9·
        2 months ago

        It can skew either way equally. We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.

  • taladar@sh.itjust.works
    12·
    2 months ago

    I wonder how representative that is of actual software used. I would imagine hardware probes are run from installers and live systems quite frequently. I would certainly not expect several percentage points of “neither” in practical settings.

      • taladar@sh.itjust.works
        4·
        2 months ago

        Yeah, but when was the last time you decided to upload hardware device data for a root server to some hardware survey? That is something almost exclusively done by the kind of people who want to show off their system in some way.

        • mryessir@lemmy.sdf.org
          3·
          2 months ago

          Especially on servers I make sure to attend in the software packages survey. Just so that the holy-gods and kings of maintainers are aware of me, the peasant running old packages.

          No yield saya. I’m sorry.

      • RedWeasel@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 months ago

        Same here. With the exception of the explicit sync, which will hopefully be resolved this week, I have been running Plasma 6 wayland since February. And honestly when I tried the X11 version it had more issues.

    • erwan@lemmy.ml
      104·
      2 months ago

      I mean, by now everyone should know not to buy Nvidia hardware if you want to run Linux on it.

      It’s been more than 10 years since Linus’ finger to Nvidia.

      • Canary9341@lemmy.ml
        3·
        2 months ago

        “Everyone” who wants to be informed, but linux is also for the unconcerned or for newcomers.

        Not to mention the monopoly that nvidia has on laptops.

        • erwan@lemmy.ml
          11·
          2 months ago

          I know it would be great if we could install Linux on any hardware, but unfortunately we’re not there yet.

          So you can either buy a laptop with Linux preinstalled, from a manufacturer who will support it, or do some research before hand.

          And Nvidia doesn’t have a monopoly on laptops, you can buy an AMD gaming laptop

      • IceFoxX@lemm.ee
        1·
        2 months ago

        Linux is becoming more and more popular on the desktop because it is now well suited for gaming. In addition to Proton, you also have to consider all the handhelds like SteamDeck. Valve certainly doesn’t want an Nvidia product with crumbling proprietary drivers. With AMD, Nvidia could see that there is a market for it and has now established itself. It was only logical that Nvidia would not stand still. They will do everything to dominate the market as well.

    • refalo@programming.dev
      1·
      2 months ago

      voluntary data tends to be pretty skewed

      Yea and a strangely (to me) large proportion of people seem vehemently opposed to apps even asking to collect usage data, which is incredibly helpful for developers, putting aside the more controversial things like privacy/marketing uses of the data.

      Personally I don’t believe for one second that Wayland has actually surpassed the install base of X11-like display servers.

  • pelya@lemmy.world
    3·
    2 months ago

    I’ve switched to X11 last week, because kwin_wayland crashes each time my monitor enters low-power mode.

  • Pantherina@feddit.de
    1·
    2 months ago

    Crazyy!

    Btw I am XWayland free since today!

    I have a list of recommended apps here

    Some apps need environment variables:

    Qt:

    • qpwgraph

    GTK

    • GPU Screen recorder, I guess

    Electron

    • Nextcloud Flatpak
    • MullvadVPN RPM
    • Signal Flatpak
    • (Element, I switched to the Webapp in Librewolf)
    • Freetube Flatpak

    You can use xlsclients -l to detect apps using XWayland.

    Some may even want to run apps through XWayland on purpose, like KeepassXC for Clipboard access or autotype. Lets see how long it takes to implement all the needed protocols.

      • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
        0·
        2 months ago

        Flatpak saved my ass when I super broke my Arch upgrade but didn’t have time to fix it before work. I ran using only Flatpak apps for like 6 weeks because they were the only thing that worked

          • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
            0·
            2 months ago

            Trying to set up snapshots is what broke my system. Not sure what the issue was exactly, but BTRFS was reporting a different amount of used space than there actually was, and my snapshots started recursively backing up until everything died

            Next time I install Linux I’m going to use Ext4 and snapshots out the gate

  • hector@sh.itjust.works
    1·
    2 months ago

    Should I consider switching? X11 just works and I’d need to rewrite all my config and I don’t really have the time rn.

  • nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
    1·
    2 months ago

    Voluntarily uploaded data? This feels like that old linux user count site.

    I will run that probe on my machines to contribute, though.

  • 3volver@lemmy.world
    1·
    2 months ago

    I tried switching to Wayland on Mint, it did not go well. Unfortunately I do not care to follow an hour long guide to figure out how to get it to run games properly.

    • NamelessGO@programming.dev
      4·
      2 months ago

      Mint Wayland support is experimental and was released in Mint 21.3 ~3 months ago

      The Wayland session isn’t as stable as the default (X11) one. It lacks features and it comes with its own limitations.

      It was added as a preview for people interested in Wayland and as an easy way for them to test if they want to give us feedback.

      A board was set up to keep track of Wayland development. It’s available at https://trello.com/b/HHs01Pab/cinnamon-wayland.

      A dedicated Github repository was created for issues related to Wayland, whether they need fixing in Cinnamon, in an XApp project, a Mint tool or anything software project we maintain: https://github.com/linuxmint/wayland.

      In terms of timing Wayland support doesn’t need to be fully ready (i.e. to be a better Cinnamon option for most people) before 2026 (Mint 23.x). That leaves us 2 years to identify and to fix all the issues. It’s something we’ll continue to work on and improve release after release.

      https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_virginia_whatsnew.php

  • megane-kun@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    0·
    2 months ago

    I switched to Wayland the moment my distro went moved to KDE Plasma 6 because according to my logic: if things are going to be broken and I’m going to adjust to them anyways, I might as well do it all at once: shock therapy style.

    Plasma 6 broke a lot of my desktop customization, but that is to be expected. And Wayland? It has been surprisingly okay. I am experiencing some keyboard-related problems that I can’t even begin to track down (sometimes the keyboard flat out refuses to work for certain programs, sometimes it’s the numpad). However, I am not sure if it’s really related to Wayland, so I’m withholding judgement.

      • megane-kun@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        0·
        2 months ago

        … I actually use Arch. Sorry.

        But really, I would have gone with EndeavourOS (instead of Arch) if it were not for my friend who really strongly advocated for Arch (even installing it for me—or rather, converting my Manjaro install into an Arch one).

        If I’ve had any regrets in my Linux journey, it’s choosing Manjaro instead of EndeavourOS as my introduction to Arch-based distros.

          • sleepyTonia@programming.dev
            0·
            2 months ago

            And in my case, I kinda don’t like Endeavour OS. I installed it on my laptop to try it out a couple months ago. It looked to me like a convenient no nonsense installer for Arch with some nice defaults, then you stumble on their custom update/mirror manager nonsense. Then you want to use a printer and realize they left CUPS disabled, as if to give you an “excuse” to use systemctl. Then if you want to use Samba, you need to go out of your way to find a default config file. I’ve had to jump through more hoops and dealt with more quirky nonsense than with Manjaro stable on that distro.

            It’s like it doesn’t know who this is meant for. People who want their hand held through a GUI for something basic as updating their system, or people who love writing their own config file for everything.

            Might as well install Arch, really.

            -Other happy Manjaro user

            • LeFantome@programming.dev
              0·
              2 months ago

              I just installed EOS a couple of minutes ago and realized what you are saying.

              So, during install, you did not click on the box that says “firewall” ( selected by default ) and you did not click on the box that says “Printing support” ( not selected by default ). To you, that means that EOS does not know who it is targeting?

              These seem like sensible defaults. Regular users should use a firewall. Many systems will not connect to a printer.

              Clicking clearly presented checkboxes ( or leaving them as default ) at the point the installer asks you to seems pretty friendly. It is certainly a lot more friendly than having to know what pacman -S is and whatever the hell CUPS is ( I know what it is but “printing” seems a bit more newb friendly ).

              Not setting stuff up at install time and then complaining that it is not installed the way you want seems….”odd”. Also, the SAMBA packages for EOS come from the Arch repos. The experience adding packages post install is literally identical between the two distros.

              This is not a very compelling indictment of EOS.

              • sleepyTonia@programming.dev
                1·
                2 months ago

                I’m sure EndeavourOS is perfectly fine for the people who work on it and their core user base. That’s not my issue. It’s still happily running on my laptop. I just keep on seeing people say “Don’t use Manjaro, use EndevourOS! It’s much better.” But your average computer user would lose their shit at having to deal with those ^ issues. “You just had to enable it at installation if you wanted printing. You didn’t see the checkbox?! Oh mah gaaa” …Seriously? It’s not a checkbox to turn it back on if you miss it and should be opt-out to begin with. Are you going to tell me CUPs is a significant memory/storage drain and a gaping vulnerability in a residential network? If one’s not familiar with Linux, CUPS, pacman and Systemd it’s a huge headache for most people to get this working.

                I just think that EndeavourOS shouldn’t be presented as a Manjaro alternative for your average person, when it’s an opinionated Arch-based distro with spotty defaults aimed at somewhat experienced Linux users that want nitty-gritty control over their system. (Users which, again, might as well be using vanilla Arch if that’s fun or important to them) And it has some weird update/mirror manager that prevented me from just using pacman to update my system at one point and I had to figure out whatever it was they wanted me to use. Never had this kind of crap happen to me in Manjaro. Nor was printing disabled by default. Nor were network shares hard to get working.

  • edinbruh@feddit.it
    0·
    2 months ago

    Wait, is it on a population of 5000 computers? Bruh, why are we even looking at this?

    • jwt@programming.dev
      0·
      2 months ago

      No the sample size is ~5000, which is pretty OK if representative of the population (big if though)

      • deezbutts@lemm.ee
        0·
        2 months ago

        Given that it requires self-reporting from the command line, I feel like the people that are more likely to be on the cutting edge may be more likely to report as well

        • zarenki@lemmy.ml
          0·
          2 months ago

          To the contrary, I would expect the sample to skew more towards people who have a heavily customized X session and strong opinions about window managers while drastically underrepresenting average GNOME users who stick with the default Wayland session. Someone who likes their custom setup can still be waiting for a Wayland equivalent while casual Ubuntu users have been defaulted to Wayland on new non-nvidia installs since early 2021.

          • Joe@discuss.tchncs.de
            0·
            2 months ago

            People who voluntarily report usage are more likely to be new users, experimenting with Linux distributions etc. Greybeards like me will check out new stuff every few months or years, and won’t shout about it one way or another. We’ll probably not send statistics when prompted, either.

            • KISSmyOSFeddit@lemmy.worldOP
              0·
              2 months ago

              This isn’t prompted. To send your data, you have to install a cli tool and run it with 2 specific options.
              I don’t think any new users are represented in the sample.

              • Joe@discuss.tchncs.de
                0·
                2 months ago

                That indeed changes things, potentially introducing much more bias. What motivation would somebody have to install this tool and run it? Is it being marketed/advertised somehow? How, where, and to whom? :-P

  • makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml
    34·
    2 months ago

    Anyone who needs accessibility is screwed as Wayland takes over. Let’s hope we can still choose for another say 40 years. Then, I’ll be done, and Wayland can rule. Pity those who will still need accessibility options though.