• Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
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    22 days ago

    If you want things to improve, stop spreading defeatist narratives. One of two old men will become president next January, and how we vote in November decides who that is.

    I have my criticisms of Biden, as many do, but I’m fucking voting for him because I understand the ramifications of a Trump win. I don’t have any power to elect another candidate, even though I would like that very much, so I will not waste my time with that fantasy.

    At this point, if you’re arguing against Biden, I will treat you like you are arguing for Trump. Whether you like it or not, this decision is binary, so if you’re spending your time and energy campaigning against Biden, you are just campaigning for Trump, and that absolutely makes you a fascist.

    If you want a progressive president, stop being a useless scold and help us secure a candidate for the 2028 election when we next have the chance to win ground.

    Some of us don’t have the privilege or security to survive another Trump term, so remember who you’re literally killing as you fight for Biden to lose.

      • jumjummy@lemmy.world
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        22 days ago

        And yet here you are spouting nonsense. Tell me oh wise one, which of the 4 choices would you make come November? 1) vote for Biden, 2) vote for Trump, 3) vote 3rd party, or 4) don’t vote?

        Come out and say you support Trump then.

        • DancingBear@midwest.social
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          21 days ago

          I’m down with the haight non family friendly drum circle at the college there but you are the one spouting nonsense

    • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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      22 days ago

      If yousdon’t have a plan B for Trump winning or after the election in general, I’d call you the defeatist, sorry.

      That’s all my criticism: Don’t have too much faith in electoralism and have a plan B.

        • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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          22 days ago

          Are you telling me you don’t have a plan how to defend minorities and women’s health if Trump wins?

          • Julian@lemm.ee
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            22 days ago

            I can do what I can but a lot is out of my control. I can’t change laws or help people far away. Except of course by voting and donating, but I only have so much money. I’d rather prevent the possible harm to people as much as possible, rather than have to try to stop things after they’ve gone bad. And in terms of prevention, I don’t have a plan b.

            • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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              22 days ago

              Join a mutual aid and community defense group. Help your community. Don’t depend on lawmakers and judges. They’ve proven time and time again they’re not on yopr side.

      • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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        22 days ago

        Are you implying you’ll live abroad?

        If so (I await your confirmation) that’s a very privileged take.

        • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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          22 days ago

          No, I’m implying that progressives should start to take politics into their own hands and don’t rely on what’s happening in washington.

    • Patapon Enjoyer@lemmy.world
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      22 days ago

      You can vote for Biden to your heart’s content in November, but do you have to defend unwavering support of genocide in June? Biden voters, more than anyone else, should be at his throat for it, but I guess it’s not the right time to not want massacres.

      Maybe give me a timetable of when it’s convenient for you to not want my family murdered

      • MyPornViewingAccount@lemmy.world
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        22 days ago

        Can you answer me how the situtation would be bettered by the Republican who literally moved the embassy to Jerusalem to recognize that as the Israeli capital?

        • Sunforged@lemmy.ml
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          22 days ago

          This wouldn’t be the horse race it is if Biden had better policy. You should be pissed that your candidate is running such a shit campaign and disparaging college kids fighting for their beliefs.

        • Patapon Enjoyer@lemmy.world
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          22 days ago

          It wouldn’t. Criticizing Biden doesn’t mean you want Trump to win? I’m baffled that this has to be explained.

          • Nougat@fedia.io
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            22 days ago

            You might not want it, but the fact is that we have a two party system in the US, and reducing support for one side always increases relative support for the other.

            I’m baffled that this has to be explained.

            • Patapon Enjoyer@lemmy.world
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              22 days ago

              So no one is allowed to criticize anything the democrats do because this is a zero sum game and anything you do just makes the republicans stronger. What a fantastic excuse.

              • Nougat@fedia.io
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                22 days ago

                So no one is allowed to criticize anything the democrats do …

                Who said that? Maybe you’re taking my assessment of the propagandist drumbeat about genocide being Biden’s fault the wrong way.

                It’s real funny how you and your ilk never show up criticizing Netanyahu, who is, you know, the guy over-prosecuting this conflict.

                • Patapon Enjoyer@lemmy.world
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                  22 days ago

                  How is it not the logical conclusion to “reducing support for one side increases support for the other”? In what cases am I allowed to criticize genocide and what cases am I not allowed?

                  Yeah you don’t see me “and my ilk”, whatever the fuck you’re implying criticizing Netanyahu as much, I also didn’t go out of my way to criticize Bin Laden a lot. Turns out you don’t really need to convince people they should hang when everyone already agrees they should hang instead of defending their indefensible crimes against humanity.

                  • Nougat@fedia.io
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                    22 days ago

                    The cool thing about Democrats in the US is that you can criticize their policies, and they might even listen to you. Good luck trying to do that with the right wing.

              • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
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                22 days ago

                You’re allowed to say whatever you want. You need to learn the difference between being disagreed with vs. being censored.

                Nobody is telling you that you can’t criticize Biden. We’re just criticizing you.

              • DancingBear@midwest.social
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                22 days ago

                They lack critical thinking skills and just repeat everything they hear on msnbc I suppose.

                Another corporate shill.

          • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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            22 days ago

            It does in the case of election/voting choices.

            To your point, criticizing Biden / the government now, in June is totally fine. And necessary. What’s happening in the world, with a USA stamp on it is unacceptable.

            Unfortunately republican actors are also doing that now and following up by saying “so that’s why I’m not voting for Biden”

      • kevindqc@lemmy.world
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        22 days ago

        Oh stop with your strawman about how the person you’re responding to, who did not mention Gaza/Israel AT ALL, is supporting genocide.

        • Patapon Enjoyer@lemmy.world
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          22 days ago

          Biden supports genocide. A vote for Biden, regardless if it’s the logical choice, is a vote for genocide wether you made peace with that or not. That’s what electoralism gets you.

          Want to offset that? Then make him stop supporting genocide. Here’s a hint: He wants your votes

          • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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            22 days ago

            If you want to play that game, a vote for Biden is a vote for genocide-lite and any other action that leads to better trump chances is a vote (implicit or explicit vote) for genocide-max.

            • Sunforged@lemmy.ml
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              22 days ago

              This argument could only be made by someone raised on propaganda and rife with Stockholm Syndrome.

              • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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                22 days ago

                Big words from a .ml user.

                I simply acknowledge I am in a no-win, limited outcome situation. As such, I move to select the lesser harm option