It’s not a threat, it’s a warning. Like saying “be careful about swimming in that lake, there’s alligators in there”. Perhaps you’ll be lucky and they’ve already eaten for the day, but simply not believing in them will not make them go away.
And no, that’s not to say there aren’t any alligators in church, because that would be a lie. What I’m trying to tell you is that they’re everywhere, not just in church, and it’s a mistake to believe you are safe because you got out of there.
Using that analogy it would be like putting someone on an island, filling the water with alligators and demanding that if they serve you and love you forever you’ll ferry them back across to the mainland in your boat. But that isn’t a threat, that’s just warning them of the dangerous alligators, right?
I would call that kidnapping and domestic abuse personally. Realizing those behaviors are classic manipulation and abuse tactics helped in getting out of that insanity. I hope you can see that too.
Are you accusing me of putting you on that island? Because a minute ago you told me that pointing out the alligators was a thinly veiled threat, as if it was me who put them there.
I’m only telling you how it is. I’m not asking you to worship me.
I’m saying that IF it is that way it is because the god MADE IT that way as an elaborate trap to coerce worship.
I used to believe it too, not super strongly, but I just sorta accepted it since everyone around me believed it.
The thing is. Setting up a trap and then putting someone inside it and then telling them to be careful of the trap, but if they want out of the trap all they have to do is worship you is just manipulation and abuse. That isn’t actual love. “Love me or burn in the fires I created to punish you if you don’t.” isn’t love… And isn’t worthy of praise or worship. If a person did that to someone else you would call them a monster.
Okay, but IF it is the way that it is because God made it that way, what is the use of getting angry about it? Is that not just going to make it worse? Also, wouldn’t you at least rather be informed about it in advance instead of having to puzzle it out yourself over many, many years? That would only make it more agonizing, wouldn’t it.
And have you considered that perhaps the entire story is merely an allegory that describes the internal experience of growing into a fully formed human being, with all the troubles, pitfalls, and vicissitudes that might befall one on the way? And that perhaps the worship of God is ultimately just about learning how to love and respect yourself with all of the flaws and problems you inevitably have?
What if the only lie they told you in church was that God was to be found somewhere out there in the world, and that someone other than you was more capable of communicating with him when He is actually inside of your own head, about two inches from the top, right between your eyes? Would that change your opinion on any of these things or would you continue to be angry about all of it?
I think that it is quite disingenuous to imply that religion doesn’t claim it is a literal god. They do. At least the big 3 do. And all the evangelical ones do. Literal god. Literal scenarios. Not a psychological technique to find some inner peace, but a literal good vs evil reality is what they all claim.
And no that wouldn’t change my opinion on it because all of that can just as easily be achieved without religion. In fact it is far easier and better without religion skewing it all. I spent years as a kid being terrified I was broken and evil and wrong because religion told me, in no uncertain terms, that I was. And despite my best attempts I couldn’t ever get close to being the perfect little follower when it seemed like everyone else was. Spoiler, they were all faking it just like I was, because they were all afraid they weren’t good enough. It’s all performative. All of it.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the problem wasn’t much religion telling you these things as the fact that your parents were also clearly broken and/or incompetent, yet continued to persist in pretending that they could somehow fix you.
You definitely go through some stages of brokenness as a child growing up because everything doesn’t necessarily grow at the same rate or the same time, so I don’t think it’s necessarily abusive to be upfront about that. What IS abusive is letting you continue to labor in that state without providing any sort of hope for relief — which the Bible clearly does, but your parents and priests may not have.
Healing from this can only occur when you start putting the blame on the right people and hold those responsible who actually caused the problem. Projecting your issues onto the entire faith or even the concept of religion as a whole is unjust and counterproductive.
It’s not a threat, it’s a warning. Like saying “be careful about swimming in that lake, there’s alligators in there”. Perhaps you’ll be lucky and they’ve already eaten for the day, but simply not believing in them will not make them go away.
And no, that’s not to say there aren’t any alligators in church, because that would be a lie. What I’m trying to tell you is that they’re everywhere, not just in church, and it’s a mistake to believe you are safe because you got out of there.
Using that analogy it would be like putting someone on an island, filling the water with alligators and demanding that if they serve you and love you forever you’ll ferry them back across to the mainland in your boat. But that isn’t a threat, that’s just warning them of the dangerous alligators, right?
I would call that kidnapping and domestic abuse personally. Realizing those behaviors are classic manipulation and abuse tactics helped in getting out of that insanity. I hope you can see that too.
Are you accusing me of putting you on that island? Because a minute ago you told me that pointing out the alligators was a thinly veiled threat, as if it was me who put them there.
I’m only telling you how it is. I’m not asking you to worship me.
Sigh… No.
I’m saying that IF it is that way it is because the god MADE IT that way as an elaborate trap to coerce worship.
I used to believe it too, not super strongly, but I just sorta accepted it since everyone around me believed it.
The thing is. Setting up a trap and then putting someone inside it and then telling them to be careful of the trap, but if they want out of the trap all they have to do is worship you is just manipulation and abuse. That isn’t actual love. “Love me or burn in the fires I created to punish you if you don’t.” isn’t love… And isn’t worthy of praise or worship. If a person did that to someone else you would call them a monster.
Okay, but IF it is the way that it is because God made it that way, what is the use of getting angry about it? Is that not just going to make it worse? Also, wouldn’t you at least rather be informed about it in advance instead of having to puzzle it out yourself over many, many years? That would only make it more agonizing, wouldn’t it.
And have you considered that perhaps the entire story is merely an allegory that describes the internal experience of growing into a fully formed human being, with all the troubles, pitfalls, and vicissitudes that might befall one on the way? And that perhaps the worship of God is ultimately just about learning how to love and respect yourself with all of the flaws and problems you inevitably have?
What if the only lie they told you in church was that God was to be found somewhere out there in the world, and that someone other than you was more capable of communicating with him when He is actually inside of your own head, about two inches from the top, right between your eyes? Would that change your opinion on any of these things or would you continue to be angry about all of it?
I think that it is quite disingenuous to imply that religion doesn’t claim it is a literal god. They do. At least the big 3 do. And all the evangelical ones do. Literal god. Literal scenarios. Not a psychological technique to find some inner peace, but a literal good vs evil reality is what they all claim.
And no that wouldn’t change my opinion on it because all of that can just as easily be achieved without religion. In fact it is far easier and better without religion skewing it all. I spent years as a kid being terrified I was broken and evil and wrong because religion told me, in no uncertain terms, that I was. And despite my best attempts I couldn’t ever get close to being the perfect little follower when it seemed like everyone else was. Spoiler, they were all faking it just like I was, because they were all afraid they weren’t good enough. It’s all performative. All of it.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the problem wasn’t much religion telling you these things as the fact that your parents were also clearly broken and/or incompetent, yet continued to persist in pretending that they could somehow fix you.
You definitely go through some stages of brokenness as a child growing up because everything doesn’t necessarily grow at the same rate or the same time, so I don’t think it’s necessarily abusive to be upfront about that. What IS abusive is letting you continue to labor in that state without providing any sort of hope for relief — which the Bible clearly does, but your parents and priests may not have.
Healing from this can only occur when you start putting the blame on the right people and hold those responsible who actually caused the problem. Projecting your issues onto the entire faith or even the concept of religion as a whole is unjust and counterproductive.