I mean, tarot is fucking stupid as well.
No, tarot is a fantastic card game : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tarot_card_games&diffonly=true
Cartomancy using a tarot game cards is stupid though.
Holy shit, Tarot was a game all this time? Time to buy a pack and get some people for a game night!
There’s also a really really old type of rpg similar to DnD that can be played with a rare kind of tarot deck called a Minchiate (97 card deck)
Do you have a link to that game? I can’t seem to find it.
Sorry, no link - read it from a library book about card game history.
From my recollection:
I do remember it was called “Oracolo” and was played in Italy, normally by family members for the younger kids. It’s part of other “story games” people would play using the bigger tarot card decks especially (something played since Mamluk deck days). You’d basically start a story about how the person is a traveler, and make up the story on the fly based off what you drew from the deck, and the kid would respond as well and then a dice would be rolled to see if they’re successful.
With Oracolo, the goal was to make it to old age and die peacefully as you go through life. You’d do this by going through the entire deck, with pips being bonuses or negatives that would be used (like, if you had chosen to be a carpenter, and got a 3, then that might be how much furniture you sold and how successful you currently are).
Every card you passed through would get set aside, with the exception of Death, which would always get shuffled back in if you survived. Death would always be the final card.
There’s other story games too people would play too. This is where the idea of using Tarot decks for divination came from actually during the Victorian era (as these story games were primarily played in Latin descendant speaking countries such as France, Spain, and Italy).
My own dad would sometimes play a story game his dad taught him using an old Tarocco Siciliano deck we had (the one that uses cups, clubs, coins, and swords). Although his was a Christian version where the goal was both survive and to go to heaven, and used more as a morality type game.
Do you remember the name of the book? Searching for “oracolo card game” on the net didn’t lead to any results
Neat, the only RPG system that I know of that uses cards is Castle Falkenstein, but a normal 13x4 deck
May I suggest you use the french tarot rules ? If there is a French community near you, you may find players among them.
Here are the rules translated in English : https://www.pagat.com/tarot/frtarot.html
Removed by mod
Fair point.
Atheist utilitarian technology professional here. I read tarot. Not because I believe anything mystical is coming through the cards. They just happen to be a very rich and rounded set of symbology to lay out and use to talk through a topic. I have never had anyone walk away from one of my readings without saying “that was more interesting than I thought it was going to be.” Of course my style is very interactive and I involve them a lot as we go. Of course others out there take an oracular approach that’s utter horseshit.
Things can be interesting, and still utter nonsense.
Unpossible. (Goes back to playing RPGs and reading isekai)
You didn’t understand. You seem to think that belief in magic or future reading or some other stuff is necessary to play tarot, but that’s not true.
You can use the cards instead as a brainstorming tool that helps you direct your thinking into new avenues that you haven’t considered so far. No bullshit necessary.
And I go to the Cathedral’s confessional for therapy, my chiropractor for all health ailments, and my life coach and CrossFit trainer tells me joint pain is just weakness leaving the body
And I’m FINE! Not fucked up at all.
Sure, but you can do that with anything.
Indeed. Sometimes it’s helpful to filter your thoughts through a different lense, and tarot can spark ideas or aspects you hadn’t considered as you try to fit things within the context of the cards you’re seeing.
i want to hang out with YOU
“I play therapist by telling my clients they are the decrepit goblin that stumbled into the stinky swamp and ask them if they want to try to get out of it by using the enchanted axe or call upon the great dragon to lift them up.”
Why is that in quotes? Is that a reference to something?
I’ll leave you to figure it out, or give up.
I figured it out. You think tarot is Dungeons & Dragons.
You SHOULD fear alcohol and cigarettes, but from scientific reasons. Tarot is also unaceptable for a scientific mind.
“Using a framing device to interpret your feelings is unacceptable to a scientific mind”
Okay square.
Okay square
I’m not even mad
If you don’t try to predict your life with Tarot, it can be a fun story creativity task.
I’d say more that if you don’t genuinely think it predicts your life, it can be fun. It’s like reading horoscopes and chuckling at them.
Tarot cards have cool artwork on them, and they are as harmful as a RNG, or cootie catchers.
Artwork is perfectly fine, but shaping your view about the reality and directing your life based on tarot is pure superstition and stupidity.
They are however fantastic for shaping the lives of fictional characters. I love using them for NPCs in my games
It’s a random number generator. It’s shuffled cards put in random order to tell a story, or focus someone on their own thoughts without distractions of self doubt. To bring order to a chaotic existence. Not all mysticism is superstition. Not all rituals are pointless, many attempt to bring people to a liminal state, an attitude of being in-between, standing at the threshold. We can keep the useful elements of these things and discard the rest. No one needs to base there life around anything they don’t like.
You speak like a religious person because this is a superstitious ritual, have fun I guess but I think it’s incredibly stupid.
You might as well try to read your future in PUBG loot boxes. Probably cheaper, too.
Also, Tarot is also a completely normal card game like Skat–nothing wrong with that
There’s nothing wrong with tarot as a concept. It’s a wonderful self reflection and guided meditation tool. Just don’t ascribe magical precognitive powers to it and you’re fine.
Tarot can be used for other games, for example solitare.
I played poker with a set of tarot cards and six people died. Steven Wright
Or Balatro
You SHOULD fear alcohol
I think fearing it is going a bit overboard. Moderation is the key.
Science says there is no healthy dose of alcohol - no moderation, but complete absence.
Healthy for what, exactly? Because it certainly isn’t incompatible with a long, good, moderately healthy life.
I’m guessing if you want to perform at peak or reduce your risk of cancer as much as humanly possible, then sure. But that’s probably the goal of a minority.
Yeah, it’s a very technically correct wording of “We cannot talk about a so-called safe level of alcohol use. It doesn’t matter how much you drink – the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage. The only thing that we can say for sure is that the more you drink, the more harmful it is – or, in other words, the less you drink, the safer it is.”
There’s nothing wrong with this statement.
It’s simply that the risks are in practice pretty negligible for the most part.
The exact same sentence structure also works with “We cannot talk about a so-called safe level of driving. It doesn’t matter how much you drive – the risk to the driver’s health starts from the first kilometer on any public road. The only thing that we can say for sure is that the more you drive, the more dangerous it is – or, in other words, the less you drive, the safer it is.”
I’m not sure on the statistics, but I’d guess if you compared the risks between drivers and drinkers at different segments of a normal distribution of drinking/driving quantity, driving would be more risky. I haven’t checked, though. There would probably be a better way to compare the risks, I haven’t looked at any of the statistics recently.
Nobody claimed othetwise. Just that fearing it is silly. It won’t have much of an effect at all on your health in moderation.
Tarok is played with tarot cards and you can still get the OG set from Piatnik.
Just in case you’re trying to impress some Austrian grandma…
Why did they draw the underwear to make it look like it’s covered in loose pubes
Your underwear aren’t?
Shit happens
I mean tarot is still superstitious nonsense, but so are religions.
I like tarot because it’s like „death; the tower of doom; the swamp of famine” and that means that you’re gonna have a chill week or something
FWIW, tarot decks were used for card playing before they were used for divining money from the gullible
divining money from the gullible
Thank you for phrasing it this way. Superstitious nonsense is all fun and games until someone loses a buck.
Tarot / psychics / etc. being used for personal and financial gain by preying on the vulnerable is far too common and needs to be called out for what it is. People who peddle this hokum for personal and financial gain are no better than TV preachers.
so, I’m not entirely sure you quite got it. Before our modern deck of cards, which we play games like shanghai rummy or spades or texas holdem, etc, it was the tarot deck. the scammers that ran around as fortune tellers used the generic standard playing card deck of the time to do it.
It’d be like me doing some slight of hand with the deck and telling fortunes or something. “an here we have the Ace of Spades, a clear indication of strength and nobilty. You have a challenge ahead of you; but you will face it with dignity. And with with … oh dear… the suicide king, that is a powerful omen of self-sabotage. but I have a charm against ill omens for thirty internet points!”
yes, I already know that there is a history to it that has been tainted by modern skullduggery.
The card that portends doom is the Tower, usually. There are as many interpretations of Tarot as there are folks that read it, but Death usually means “change.”
Tarot is largely harmless; it’s odd how upset folks on Lemmy get over it. It’s mostly middle aged women and queer men who do it for fun. I use it as a way of organizing my thoughts sometimes - I own a few decks which I enjoy as art pieces and brainstorming tools. I’ll read for friends sometimes and I’m pretty open about the fact that I’m mostly leaning on what the cards do in the Binding of Isaac.
I dislike all means of normalizing magical thinking, that includes things as petty as tarot and horoscopes and making wishes. Decks as art are cool, cosplay mysticism makes superstition more mainstream.
It doesn’t mean you’re gonna have a chill week.
It means literally nothing.
“You drew a royal flush, congratulations. That means the local mayor will give you an enema. Since it’s in the suit of clubs, that means it’ll happen on Tuesday afternoon. That’ll be $30, thanks. Go get flushed, retard.”
There’s a bunch of card games you can play with tarot decks. People should mention this more so that they become more popular again. The people using them for non game reasons is the same as if they were using a Yu-Gi-Oh deck for it.
PS: the standard 52 deck is also a kind of tarot deck.
No, we use it as a reframing device. You basically point a random story generator at currently relevant facets of your life. This helps you to see them from a new perspective, which can get you unstuck when you have reasoned yourself into a corner.
There’s absolutely no belief in magic necessary to use it.
People who use tarot absolutely believe in magic.
I loathe apologists.
I personally hate people who try to marry atheism and mysticism as a unified community. It is completely at odds with my values.
Don’t play Dungeons and Dragons or Satan will get you.
*don’t play DnD with a killer DM.
Unless you’re into that. (I assure you, it’s way more exciting if you let me occasionally kill a character. I promise it won’t happen too often, and it’ll be in the oneshots… which i tune to be challenging.)
but if you play with a carebear DM… you’ll get fluff campaigns.
Killer DMs are fine, so long as they show up with a stack of character sheets and you know what you’re getting into. There’s a D&D variant called “Kobolds Ate My Baby” where you immediately respawn the turn after you die as a new Kobold and charge right back into the mix.
if you play with a carebear DM… you’ll get fluff campaigns
Story heavy campaigns with generous rules for resurrection and a focus on social interaction over combat give you more time to engage in high drama. When you’re not worried about a bad die roll ending a character arc, you don’t feel the urge to minmax in order to have fun and can play up the fluffier aspects of the game.
Perma-Death also tends to mean more when it happens less often. Having an “In Memoriam” game for a beloved character means a bit more than throwing half a dozen alts into a ditch.
Yup!
So, like during Covid, I might have gone a little stir crazy, and built my own little universe with this massive (and tweaked-as-they-went) collection of story arcs. I used stardrifter’s rules
I touch one of those characters and I’m a dead dm. But they’ve been playing those characters for years now.
The way I’ve learned to do it is to build some sort of resurrection system in as the game progresses. The one shot style single-night campaigns with fresh characters, those are where I’m allowed to create new and interesting (and usually hilarious) ways for them to die.
The one shot style single-night campaigns with fresh characters, those are where I’m allowed to create new and interesting (and usually hilarious) ways for them to die.
Ah, yes. We had a Skull & Shackles pirate campaign where we kept a roster of lower-level crew members who would do Red Shirts tier missions when we didn’t have a full table. Lots of spoofs and goofs, and the main character cast didn’t have to lose sleep over getting eaten by a giant claim or seduced to the bottom of the sea by sexy merpeople.
15 years sober here. Alcohol is not an option for me.
The important thing is you have discovered this and are comfortable with that knowledge. That in and of itself is a big deal.
yes, the lesson here was self-discovery-- as difficult a lesson as that was.
i admit that i’ve been through a similar one myself. i quit heroin 20 years ago.
Congrats on staying clean!
thanks!
Was about to say this.
Alcohol is one heck of a mixed bag., at best.
Of the things on the graphic, alcohol is the one that can do the most actual self damage.
deleted by creator
You really can.
Did religion get you there? I don’t recall anything about it in church. In fact they SERVED alcohol at my church.
Baptists forbid all alcohol, they’re a pretty significant percentage of Christians in the US.
deleted by creator
I don’t know about a lot of religions, but have so far only heard about Mormons banning coffee. Everything else seems to apply to multiple (that I know of) except that. But might hear of another today, I’ll be one of the lucky 10,000.
Congratulations, sincerely.
I’ve been on the world since before I can remember. It used to be pretty fun, honestly, but I can tell it’s just eating my soul away bit by bit. Unless something changes soon there won’t be anything left.
Tap for /s
Just kidding, I hate this place. I really am happy for you though. It’s not easy.
Mormonism?
Don’t forget music and the entire fantasy genre
Coffe!? How? I am a little bit confused
I think that one is for the Mormons? I’m like 85% sure they think caffeine is against their religion.
im an exmo, yeah that’s basically it. The “doctrine” we get that from says:
And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
this was “interpreted” as caffeine specifically, probably because the cult leaders didn’t want to give up hot cocoa.
Would iced coffee be okay then? Or they decide hot meant caffeine?
Iced coffee is also not allowed if it has caffeine
It’s religion, so it doesn’t have to make any sense, that’s what’s great about it.
Mormons aren’t allowed hot drinks. I wonder if anyone’s made an exception for cold brew.
Don’t forget: Science fiction
Fast food (and while it’s bad for you, I’m not gonna die from having it once dude)
Video games (especially Pokemon)
All of these things were seen as bad around the people I grew up with. But, even my mom realised it was mostly bullshit and let me play Pokemon.
Coffee and Yoga?
Mormons are anti coffee
My ex-mother outlaw wouldn’t do yoga because she thought it was a religion or witchcraft or something (ETA: and thus thought it imperiled her eternal soul because she might pick up some beliefs) and she was a mainline Baptist so yeah, yoga.
I know it’s a typo but an ex-mother outlaw who won’t do yoga sounds pretty cool. “In a world where yoga was required by law. She said no. Rated R”
Not a typo, actually. She’s my ex mother outlaw because I never married my ex, her other title is “my kids grandma”. She is great, though has the oddball conservative ideas you’d expect for an old person. Like the yogaphobia.
thought it was a religion
It absolutely started as a religious practice. There are various forms of yoga that are used as mediation practices in Hinduism.
That said, Westerners almost never practice yoga that way. They’ll sprinkle in a generous helping of, “namaste” but they’re basically doing it as a form of light exercise.
It’s like if a bunch of Indians saw a Catholic ceremony and said, “That’s a pretty good workout. Stand up, sit down, kneel, sit, kneel, stand. It’s not a religious thing, I just go to mass for leg day.”
It is technically part of a repressive religion itself so the placement in the list does seem a bit odd to me, but the nuance is that nonpractitioners can use it to stretch and exercise without any spiritualism.
Yeah I realized after writing that, it’s a little flippant. My favorite yoga teacher once described American yoga as an unholy mashup of British calisthenics and ancient Indian spiritual and contemplative practices, and that sounds about right. I do know it’s orientalist, and that’s problematic, but goodness it is a great physical practice, the way we do it here.
I think I read that originally yoga was a mental and physical practice that later on had all these layers of religiosity added. Someone more knowledgeable feel free to correct me.
originally hindu meditation for seeking… well… I’m not sure I understand it.
in the modern era there’s both the traditional, religious yoga, and the people doing it for generic mindfulness and physical fitness. it’s also in Jainism and Buddhism, but it started in hinduism.
The church I grew up in offered “yoga style stretching class” that did not have any heathen influences like gongs or deep breathing or Sanskrit names for stuff, was separated by gender, did not allow yoga pants or bare midriffs and avoided any postures that flaunted the privates. You know… to avoid giving Satan™ a foothold in your nether bits.
do be fair, their church probably has a fair number of predators that… uh… well. look, don’t ask why they just don’t get rid of the creep, s’okay?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_stair
The missing stair is a metaphor for a person within a social group or organization who many people know is untrustworthy or otherwise has to be “managed,” but around whom the group chooses to work by discreetly warning newcomers of their behavior, rather than address the person and their behavior openly. The “missing stair” in the metaphor refers to a dangerous structural fault, such as a missing step in a staircase; a fault that people may become used to and quietly accepting of, that is not openly signposted or fixed, and that newcomers to a group or organization are warned about discreetly.
Alcohol use disorder is the third leading preventable cause of death in the world.
Hundreds of millions of people “abuse” alcohol casually and live long, full lives.
Tarot on the other hand gives you some kind of turbocancer brain damage if you engage with it more than once, as if it’s more than a curious novelty.
Tarot does WHAT?!
TURBOCANCER BRAIN DAMAGE
I’m not sure what your getting at.
Are you saying that choices and activities are cool as long as they mostly don’t cause death?
Hundreds of millions of people smoke, own guns, eschew safety equipment and live long, full lives.
deleted by creator
I’m saying tarot gives you turbocancer, brain damage.
deleted by creator
Behind driving.
How do you mean?
That dying in a car accident is more likely than dying for alcohol reasons (could often be both, of course).
I was looking around and that seems to be a US specific statistic.
Worldwide, auto accidents don’t make it into the top 10.
deleted by creator
Interesting.
It looks like you’re right on traffic deaths. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate The US (12.9) is actually a little below average on traffic related deaths compared to the global average per 100,000 (16.7).
It looks like the discrepancy comes from how different statistics interpret alcohol related deaths. The Wikipedia article I linked to initially, uses numbers from the Disease Control Priorities report https://www.dcp-3.org/ that counts underlying risk factors. That may be a high estimate and there’s some variation in how people talk about alcohol related deaths (eg fully vs partially attributable to alcohol https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7308a1.htm)
So if you look at just deaths that are fully attributable to alcohol are 51,665 but deaths that are at least partially attributable to alcohol are at 178,000). Some of those traffic deaths are included. Around 11,000 traffic fatalities a year are attributed to drunk driving (https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/car-crash-statistics/#leading-causes-of-fatal-car-accidents).
It makes sense now that I think about it. It’s easy to tell when someone’s been in a vehicle crash and whether or not it was fatal. There’s a whole continuum of how much alcohol someone can consume and how much of a problem it is for them. It’s pretty obvious if they die from acute alcohol poisoning but if their alcohol use weakened their immune system and they die of COVID, how do we categorize it?
- Anime
- D&D
- Secular music
- Public-schoolers
- Questions
I, too, am disappointed by the lack of D&D on this infographic. Plus it needs more Ozzy.
tbf, even without religion, coffee still keeps me up at night
Isn’t that it’s point?
Coffee?
Mormons, jehovas witnesses, probably other religions too
There is a krishna restaurant nearby, they have excellent food but no coffee (nor carbonated water for some reason).
