I actually feel sorry for this person. It sounds as of they’re getting properly fucked by bureaucracy and ended up in SovCit while looking for a solution, as opposed to starting there and causing their own problems. They’re not trying to
- Not have a driver’s license
- Cancel a debt
- Repudiate contracts or documents
They’re just trying to have a car. At worst, they’re simply kind of dumb for not having things lined up, but there were times in my life when I was just as discombobulated.
I agree. This poor schlub did a Google search (“no license or birth certificate”) and a bunch of sovcit pages popped up. It’s an example of why this shit is toxic to people in general.
Yeah, this feels like we are seeing an otherwise normal person in an unfortunate situation waiting at the bus stop to crazy town.
I’ve never been in such a situation, so I’m genuinely curious how this plays out. Can they really say this after all the paperwork has been signed? Isn’t this something they should have checked before selling him the car or approving the loan? Is this actually his problem or is he getting bullied by the lender?
The sale contract with the dealership probably has some language like “contingent on final approval from the loan company,” and the lender probably has their own rules about only approving loans for people with a valid driver’s license. The dealership should know those rules, but I think this person is getting caught in the very unfortunate but definitely real bureaucratic nightmare where it’s often your own responsibility to know that someone who you believe knows the rules better than you is wrong.
That said, everything up to the last few sentences sounds like they’re trying to do things the right way, but if they try using One Weird Trick™ to keep possession of the car they’re probably going to cause much bigger problems for their future self.
This is exactly it. Unfortunately, lenders don’t review documents the moment you buy the car, and I can confirm my job has had to do “return/repurchase” transactions for customers when their lender said “mm, nah” days or weeks after the purchase.
If they try to bond the title, the state will reject it and the lender will step up efforts to fuck them over for trying to circumvent the process. Circle of sovcit life.
Kinda weird Georgia requires a full Birth Certificate for a Driver’s License and doesn’t take another state’s at least provisionally.
The problem is likely that Georgia only offers driver’s licenses that fully comply with the Real ID law while the poster might not have gotten the Colorado driver’s license when Colorado offered Real ID driver’s licenses.
OIC. My state still allows for plain old Drivers Licenses. Though I have a feeling disenfranchisement is a feature, not a bug for Georgia’s decision to do it that way…
I actually feel sorry for this person. It sounds as of they’re getting properly fucked by bureaucracy
I don’t think its that so much as a lack of “adulting”. I’m seeing a number of “adulting” failures:
- Drivers licenses very typically expire every 4 to 8 years and on a persons birthday in many states (looks like the case in Georgia and maybe in Colorado too). This person waited to renew 2 days before it expired after moving to a completely different state.
- They don’t have a copy of their own birth certificate readily available.
- They just bought a new car.
None of these by themselves is a huge problem, but part of adulting is recognizing that things regularly don’t go as they should and you need to have extra time to account for this. If the person didn’t have an immediate need for their birth certificate waiting 16 to 18 weeks is not a problem at all. If this person had gone to renew their drivers license (in their new state!) months before it expired this still wouldn’t have been a problem. If this person had done both of the above when they bought the new car, they’d already have hand their new driver’s license and this wouldn’t be a problem either.
This isn’t being fucked by bureaucracy, this is possibly a learning moment for young adult to learn about getting things done as an adult.
Yeah, they made a lot of mistakes. However, it’s possible that this will significantly impact their lives, leaving them with no ability to retain their job, shop, or otherwise function in our auto-centric city plans. It doesn’t sound like anyone in the bureaucracy is giving them an even temporary work around. Everyone makes mistakes; a good system provides options to help people fix their mistakes. Good systems don’t make people wait 4-5 months for essential documents; that’s crappy bureaucracy. And then requiring on the other end those documents, with no other recourse for other options, that’s shitty bureaucracy too. It’s stuff like this that makes people hate bureaucracy. Having experiences like this, where some small mistakes resulting from ignorance and harming no-one could cost you your job, is what radicalizes people.
But, my main point was that this sounds like someone who stumbled onto SovCit while trying to find a fix for their mess, rather than the usual SovCit causing their own problems through idiocy.
Yeah, they made a lot of mistakes. However, it’s possible that this will significantly impact their lives, leaving them with no ability to retain their job, shop, or otherwise function in our auto-centric city plans.
At worst, they’re going to go back to the place they bought the car to return it, and they will be handed a $5000 check (their deposit). That will buy enough Uber rides for them to keep their job for now until they sort this out.
It doesn’t sound like anyone in the bureaucracy is giving them an even temporary work around.
I agree it doesn’t. However, this is a situation of “Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.” The system isn’t broken, its just not being followed properly, not even close.
Everyone makes mistakes; a good system provides options to help people fix their mistakes.
This wasn’t one mistake. This was three back-to-back mistakes. There IS a way to fix every one of this person’s problems that they posts, and quickly, but again it takes more adulting.
Good systems don’t make people wait 4-5 months for essential documents; that’s crappy bureaucracy.
Its not a bad system you’re seeing. Its crappy adulting on the person’s part. It doesn’t take 4-5 months to get a birth certificate in the state of Colorado. It took me 30 seconds to find that in Colorado you can have your birth certificate in your hands in the same day of request.
“You can get your birth certificate the same day if you go to a Vital Records Office” source
And then requiring on the other end those documents, with no other recourse for other options, that’s shitty bureaucracy too. It’s stuff like this that makes people hate bureaucracy.
That person does have other recourse, they just aren’t adulting enough. They could renew their Colorado driver’s license which is all their lender is asking for to keep the financing. The lender isn’t asking for a Georgia driver’s license, they’re asking for any valid driver’s license. The person could give the newly renewed valid Colorado driver’s license to their lender and the car financing problem is gone. The person would also have their birth certificate in hand to convert to a Georgia driver’s license in the near future (not an emergency anymore). That is solvable literally tomorrow in less than about 7 hours.
How could they get their birth certificate and Colorado driver’s license renewed in one day? You do what you have to do as an adult. This person can fly to Denver tomorrow morning, head to Vital Records building and walk out with the birth certificate, and head over to the DMV and get their Colorado license renewed, then head to the airport in the evening to go back to Georgia in the same day. No hotel stay even required. I just Googled the cost of this plane ticket for tomorrow morning and it would be $549 round-trip on Frontier they don’t even need to take luggage. They’d land back in Georgia about 16 hours after they left with a valid drivers license, and the proper document to (in the near future) convert it to a Georgia driver’s license.
Yes this sucks to spend this money and this time, but thats what adulting is. Its doing what needs to be done to take care of your business even if it sucks. Hopefully its also the lesson to do these things ahead of time instead of neglecting them and trying to do them at the last minute.
Also understand, I don’t think the person is a bad person. I think they’re young and inexperience in life. That’s okay! I was young once too and made mistakes just like these if not worse! I had to pay big chunks of money (to me at the time) to undo or overcome some of my mistakes, and other times there was nothing I could do beside suffer the consequences. This is what growing up is. This is what grows into successful “adulting”. Its never a pleasant journey. I know it certainly wasn’t for me.
But, my main point was that this sounds like someone who stumbled onto SovCit while trying to find a fix for their mess, rather than the usual SovCit causing their own problems through idiocy.
I think you might be right on this one. I don’t think they started as a Sovcit, and the Sovcit actions they’re taking could indeed be simply be stumbling on the wrong path to get this solved the right way because of Sovcit pollution of the internet.
they will be handed a $5000 check (their deposit). That will buy enough Uber rides for them to keep their job for now until they sort this out.
… which they will no longer have to use a deposit once this gets sorted out. Isn’t this “let them eat cake” advice? Like saying, “they can just live on credit cards until they get a job”?
However, this is a situation of “Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.”
True enough. I would hope, however, that we’re building a society of compassionate support systems, and not a libertarian hellscape where you have to insert a quarter to call emergency services. I mean, we’re already mostly in that hellscape, where a single ambulance ride can literally bankrupt families.
I think we aren’t disagreeing on the fundamentals: the subject made a series of poor decisions. Where we differ is that I believe that the system is letting them down, creating conditions that we’re are watching create a SovCit. However, I didn’t dig in a deeply as you did to see it the person is missing some easy fixes.
It’s entirely possible that this person just isn’t very smart. Or maybe they aren’t very experienced at being an adult - they could be 19 and lack experience; they could be poorly educated, or be on the spectrum. They could simply have poor problem solving when dealing with bureaucracy. Maybe their life skills are in a different area than dealing with a web of regulation requirements.
I believe we’re living in a time that favors people with certain skills, and also disadvantages people who lack those skills. What you call basic “adulting” is a bias in favor of people who can navigate bureaucracies; this tends to be a much more urban skill set, and it’s one of the things causing so much division between urban and rural America.
For me, it comes down to this: we, as a country, should be creating a society where people who aren’t and don’t want to have a higher education, and skill and experience with information systems, can still accomplish what they need to do. You should be able to navigate a relocation within the country with no more than a basic high-school education. A lot of what this person seems to be struggling with is being overwhelmed by paperwork and a lack of skill in researching information, and IMHO, this is as much a failure of the bureaucracy as it is the individual’s ability to efficiently concurrently navigate multiple regulatory systems.
As an aside, I appreciate your approach to this debate. We disagree about some points, but I think you’ve argued well, and politely, so thank you. It’s conversations like this that remind me of how different from Reddit the Lemmy vibe (usually) is - with the exception of a few Lemmy instances which seem to be magnets for trolls and caustic bad-faith actors.
Is this really a thing moving interstate in the US ? Holy batshit insane there the . More so then his ramblings.
In Australia, taken in proof of new address along with interstate licence, get new photo taken on the spot,. few days later, new license.
And you really can’t own a car without a licese, why ??? What if you don’t drive but the wife does becase you lost yours ?
I have never purchased a vehicle on finance, so I have no idea what the go is in Australia I guess.
