Not so friendly reminder that musk specifically came up with, and pushed, for hyperloop knowing that it would never be made, as an effort to stop the development of highspeed rail in America and shift all political discussions of it because “something better is around the corner”:
As I’ve written in my book, Musk admitted to his biographer Ashlee Vance that Hyperloop was all about trying to get legislators to cancel plans for high-speed rail in California—even though he had no plans to build it. Several years ago, Musk said that public transit was “a pain in the ass” where you were surrounded by strangers, including possible serial killers, to justify his opposition.
Also: 2024 update, the total length of China’s high-speed rail tracks has now reached well over 45,000 km, or 28,000 miles, by the end of 2023.
They are additionally five years ahead of schedule and expect to double the total number within ten years. And, before someone inevitably complains about “how expensive it is”, they are turning over a net-profit of over $600M USD a year.
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To be fair, China doesn’t have to deal with eminent domain.
And annoying stuff like human rights
I hope people realize that the issue isn’t musk but California’s reliance on the private sector to do public good.
I feel like we can talk about how Elon and mass transit in America are the worst without making poor comparison to China.
We can’t compete with nationalized railroads.
The cult of musk is fucking disgusting.
It’s abhorrent how much influence he has on public decisions.
The man is a monster and his sycophantic followers are incapable of critical thought.
incapable of critical thought.
Look in the mirror, bud.
Why are you insulting someone who is agreeing with you…?
You’re white knighting for a billionaire you fucking chud.
To paraphrase the great Big Daddy Kane:
Anything goes when it comes to hos cos simpin’ ain’t easy!
Keep simpin’ ya simp!
Projects intended for the public good don’t need to be profitable. It is disingenuous to argue that High Speed Rail is profitable in China, nor can you make the assumption that it could be profitable in other markets.
There are a lot of conflicting reports on how profitable HSR is in China, the fact that government and Industry are often one in the same and the lack of good public accounting at Chinese companies makes any reports from HSR advocates out of china questionable. After all they do want to sell their HSR technology globally.
HSR is much more difficult in the US as the rights of private property are respected and projects need to pass a much higher threshold of review for environmental impact, etc. There are many major infrastructure projects in China that turn out to be poorly planned and executed years after they have been completed.
It is disingenuous to argue that High Speed Rail is profitable in China
High efficiency public infrastructure doesn’t add economic value because it won’t show up on China’s domestic ledger as “profit for shareholders”. You heard it here first.
government and Industry are often one in the same and the lack of good public accounting at Chinese companies makes any reports from HSR advocates out of china questionable
Yes, we have data to argue there is an economic benefit, but DON’T TRUST IT! Everything good you read about China is a lie and everything bad you read about China is a ten times worse.
HSR is much more difficult in the US as the rights of private property are respected
LO-fucking-L.
And that’s just the modern stuff. Google “Robert Moses” if you really want to get a taste for American style private property protections.
High efficiency public infrastructure doesn’t add economic value because it won’t show up on China’s domestic ledger as “profit for shareholders”. You heard it here first.
Weird you would write that when in the first sentence of my post, I explicitly stated that public works projects don’t need to be profitable to be justified. But hey I’m glad we agree on something, it’s great to find common ground!
Yes, we have data to argue there is an economic benefit, but DON’T TRUST IT! Everything good you read about China is a lie and everything bad you read about China is a ten times worse.
If you choose to willingly believe everything the CCP is stating, feel free to put your money where your mouth is and invest in Chinese HSR companies. It could be a great investment opportunity for you.
LO-fucking-L.
In Iowa, an ongoing saga regarding a network of carbon dioxide pipelines proposed by carbon-capture companies has united predominantly conservative farmers and environmental activists on the issue of taking privately owned land for corporate gain. Despite feeling intimidated, the Averitts wouldn’t sell their 135-acre property, along with a 100-acre commercial site the family had hoped to develop. The company, Dominion Energy, ended up claiming the land anyway via eminent domain, the power to take private land for “public use,” which in recent years has been invoked with increasing frequency by oil and gas companies seeking to build new pipelines. After Dominion and its ACP partner, Duke Energy, canceled the Atlantic Coast Pipeline in July 2020, the Averitts, who had been in the process of challenging the company in court, regained control of their land, but not without a serious financial and emotional toll. Others along the ACP’s route—often rural communities that are disproportionately BIPOC, low-income, or both—have fared even worse in the aftermath of the canceled pipeline, which was going to run from West Virginia to North Carolina, and elsewhere in the country. And that’s just the modern stuff. Google “Robert Moses” if you really want to get a taste for American style private property protections.
I once again wish to express appreciation to you for making my point for me. It is weird you would do that but hey thanks! The fact that the pipeline was tied and others were canceled because of the increased costs of eminent domain illustrates how it is more expensive to undertake major infrastructure projects in the US than it is in China.
I explicitly stated that public works projects don’t need to be profitable
If I save 10 minutes on my daily commute, I claim a profit in relative time. If I can get between home and work for $5 less a day, that profits me monetarily. You can - and plenty of papers do - demonstrate the financial benefits of a high speed transit system.
The difference between the East Asian rapid transit model and the American model is that those profits accrue primarily to the individual rather than the corporation. Claiming that Chinese/Japanese/Korean residents don’t profit from an HSR requires you to treat their time and money as valueless.
If you choose to willingly believe everything the CCP is stating
You need more on the table than “Don’t believe Chinese people, they’re all lying to you”. Hell, I’m not even sure what I’m not supposed to believe. You haven’t cited a source much less challenged one.
I once again wish to express appreciation to you for making my point for me.
Don’t trust the Chinese, because Iowa corn farmers are being sold out to the American O&G industry?
it is more expensive to undertake major infrastructure projects in the US than it is in China.
Why do you think that is?
If I save 10 minutes on my daily commute, I claim a profit in relative time. If I can get between home and work for $5 less a day, that profits me monetarily. You can - and plenty of papers do - demonstrate the financial benefits of a high speed transit system.
The difference between the East Asian rapid transit model and the American model is that those profits accrue primarily to the individual rather than the corporation. Claiming that Chinese/Japanese/Korean residents don’t profit from an HSR requires you to treat their time and money as valueless.
Weirder and weirder…you seem intent on misquoting me and taking my statements out of context. You left off the first part of my original statement:
Projects intended for the public good don’t need to be profitable.
Once again thank you for agreeing with me (even if you didn’t realize it) and finding common ground.
If you choose to willingly believe everything the CCP is stating
You need more on the table than “Don’t believe Chinese people, they’re all lying to you”. Hell, I’m not even sure what I’m not supposed to believe. You haven’t cited a source much less challenged one.
Yet again you seem intent on taking my statements out of context. Even with my exact words listed above… Are you just trying to invent straw man arguments?
No where in my sentence about the CCP did I say “Don’t believe Chinese people”, THAT IS YOUR OWN QUOTE. Quite frankly its very racist.
You can’t even cite or interpret my own text properly, why would I bother providing you with more advanced citations.
Don’t trust the Chinese, because Iowa corn farmers are being sold out to the American O&G industry?
I’m not even sure where to go with this racist rhetorical question. Once again I would advise not trusting the CCP, I have no qualms with the Chinese people. I’ve done direct business with Chinese business owners and in all my personal dealings they were honest and forthright.
Why do you think that is?
My original post covers why it is more expensive to build HSR in the US, I suggest going back and re-reading it.
Once again I would advise not trusting the CCP
Is there any actual reason for this?
Other than the obvious, of course.
No where in my sentence about the CCP did I say “Don’t believe Chinese people”
Do you know what the C in CCP stands for?
Is there any actual reason for this?
Other than the obvious, of course.
Feel free to educate yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China
https://time.com/6302515/china-philippines-south-china-sea-aggression/
Do you know what the C in CCP stands for?
Yes, do you know how a names and acronyms work? Do you also know what the CP in the CCP stands for?
Feel free to educate yourself.
All of these have been debunked.
Do you also know what the CP in the CCP stands for?
The the largest political party on earth. Might as well say “I don’t hate Americans, just all the Republicans plus all the Democrats”
Search Thunderf00t on YouTube. Researched and sourced refutation of each of musk’s many and always evolving lies, from an actual physicist with a PhD.
thunderf00t is a raging misogynist. Like he made hundreds of gamergate videos obsessing over this one woman for daring to criticize the portrayal of women in videogames
I’m down to reject bigots being bigots. But even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
yes he’s a scientist and has a lot of videos debunking tech bro pseudoscience, I just think it’s worth knowing how muvh of an unhinged asshole he is
🤡
thunderf00t is a raging misogynist. Like he made hundreds of gamergate videos obsessing over this one woman for daring to criticize the portrayal of women in videogames
Completely false.
Yeah it’s amazing how fast and cheaply you can build infrastructure when there’s no labour rights and no property rights.
And quality control
I would never set foot into a chinese Train
I have seen 3 Videos of derailed chinese Trains in the last 2 years and I have no idea how many more the CCP successfully covered up.
We have plenty of domestic derailments to go around, so I feel like this is just casting stones from our glass house. Although in our case it’s not that the build quality is bad, it’s that maintenance has been skipped for so long that everything is falling apart.
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“muddy water is also poisonous” is a bad thing to say when I say “you shouldn’t drink arsenic”
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No, we don’t. Switzerland is one of the safest countries for trains, we invented and implemented multiple security systems for trains, riding a train here is completely safe.
I know you probably assumed I’m from the same country as you (“we”) and that your country isn’t that save, but this assumption is wrong.
“We” don’t have plenty of domestic derailments to go around.
Well, I’m not psychic, so for lack of appropriate context I’m going to naturally assume that you’re talking from the perspective of an American in the thread about how China is destroying the United States (California specifically) in high speed rail production.
Now that I know better, feel free to disregard my comment.
Yeah, but I never gave you a reason to assume that.
I simply talked about how insecure Chinese rail is. Nothing about the US or California. Frankly, you chose to just jump to conclusions, nothing natural about it.
If literally half the people online were Swiss, and had been since your childhood, it would be very natural of you to assume that most of the time when you’re talking to someone, you’re talking to a Swiss person.
You can try to paint him rude or assumptuous or anything, but I very much fail to see that. Yea there are those Americans who assume too much, too often, but this wasn’t one of those times, and your reply with the “I’m not American how dare you” while not even saying you’re Swiss is tonally really dickish and arrogant, but that’s just my personal opinion on the matter.
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Yeah it’s all Elon Musk’s fault 🙄
