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This is 100% how the Nazis got into power too. Hitler made all kinds of deals with the center-right, military, conservatives, and Hindenburg himself, by promising to be a bulwark against communism, unions, and the left in general. We all know how that movie ended.
Ended? You mean fled to Argentina, paperclipped to America and stayed quiet for a few decades before getting louder… And Louder… AND LOUDER… AND LOUDER!!!
would someone enlighten the uninformed like me? thanks
The context given in the title: France had an election and the left union is the biggest group but still doesn’t have a majority. The president is a liberal and seems to favor the Right over the Left
Would you be able to explain the difference between “left” and “liberal” in this context?
I’m not the same person, but I’ll give it a go. It’s confusing in part because liberal often means leftish leaning in the US but not elsewhere.
For example Democrat and liberal are pretty much interchangeable in US political discourse, but that’s not what the word means. Liberalism is more of an economic strategy. In this sense Democrats and Republicans are both liberals. They are all conservative liberals. Does that sound like a contradiction? Only in modern US politics. One party is just more conservative socially and more economically liberal.
Left or Leftist is generally in conflict with liberal ideology, as a leftist believes in strong social safety nets like universal healthcare, universal basic income, etc. Depending on the type of leftist, this could mean things like a planned economy, workers owning the means of production, or even collectivist anarchy. Examples of leftists are Socialists and Communists.
This is why, to a leftist, it’s so damn funny when a republican calls a democrat a radical leftist. No self respecting leftist would be a member of the democratic party.
Sorry for all the US centric shit on a thread about France but I think that’s where the confusion usually comes from.
You’re saying the party socializing healthcare is ideologically opposed to people who want socialized healthcare…?
What party is socializing healthcare?
He is saying:
Left is Bernie Sanders
the democrats are the center (leaning right)
the republican are the right.
From the rest of the world point of view: US politics is center right VS extreme right.
The large majority of democrats want progressive reform, so that’s just wrong. There is a reason Bernie only caucuses with the Democrats.
The large majority of Democratic voters absolutely do. However the large majority of Democratic donors do not and are at odds with the voter base of the Democratic party.
No self respecting leftist would be a member of the democratic party.
That is such a stupid mindset. In many states you have to be a member of the party to vote in their primary. If you are not voting in any primary then you are letting people that you disagree with decide who will be in the candidate in the election. And considering that not voting is effectively voting for the candidate that you most disagree with, all the leftists that refuse to associate with the democratic party are effectively voting for the people they disagree with.
In most countries you need to be a party member to engage in internal party politics. The idea that the heneral public makes direct choices for private political organizations is, honestly, kind of weird.
But also, which states require you to be an actual card-carrying member to participate in the primary? I was under the impression that most merely required that you register with the electoral office as a party supporter.
Being a “registered X” is very different from being “a member of X”. Members get to do things like go to convemtions where party policy is discussed and voted on. Members get to vie for party nomination. They’re part of the internal machinery of the party.
Yhey’re not just voters with a party banner.
OK, if you want to look at it that way, it’s still the same basic argument, refusing to participate in the party just effectively increases the representation of the people you disagree with.
if someone doesn’t agree with either party why should they vote? when someone refuses to vote for your party they are simple refusing, this does not mean they are voting for the other side. i really dislike this conflation people make.
here’s a fun thought experiment. democrats win this upcoming election, does this mean all the people who didn’t vote had actually voted democrats?
Stop thinking about it like you need to vote for someone to represent your views because that’s NEVER how it worked. It’s a tug of war, everytime you don’t vote you’re letting your side down.
Just because not everyone pulling with you agrees on where to stop pulling doesn’t mean you get to drop the rope.
So third party are okay?
That’s fair. I’m not against strategic voting.
liberalism is a belief in free association / marketplace of ideas and is centrist on a global scale. the usa is generally right-leaning so the two major parties are the liberals (centrists) and the right wing
Think of liberals as centrists
The use of “liberal” has been taken by the right, from the neo-liberal they started with. Now they consider themselves the true liberals. It’s the good ole 1984 newspeak strategy of taking the words out of their original meaning to make them lose their meaning, and their ideas behind.
I think that he is referring to “liberal” more in the sense of being in the political spectrum of economic liberal. Usually I see the difference between the US and EU definition of the term liberal: in the US it is a synonym of the left wing party or leaning, in EU is used for being liberal economic leaning and is different from being left party or left wing
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Liberals tend to make alliances with fascists in the interest of keeping the peace.
interest of keeping
the peacetheir pieceFtfy
Words mean nothing anymore and terms that always were are now not
Macron is being corrupt by working with the worst of French society.
Macron is corrupted.
See also; British Columbia
Tell me you’re from Alberta without telling me you’re from Alberta…
all libs right now. The UK is doing the exact same with less party politicking
In the US we’re skipping the whole locked up part entirely
Elaborate?
Did I miss something in France? Last i checked the center and left-leaning parties formed an alliance to keep the right wing out of power.
The left leaning parties are liberals she the center are fascists, they’re keeping real leftists out. None of the “left wing” parties in France are trying to start a revolution in the streets to take power. They’re all too happy sitting there, just being in power… It’s pathetic.
The left alliance doesn’t have the numbers to govern on their own, and Macron (the liberals) would rather join forces with conservatives.
Do you have a source or examples? I haven’t heard anything about the french situation since the left and the liberals actually formed a coalition to stop the FP from winning.
Shh, this is a lefty circle jerk thread.
You lost buddy? You need a grown-up?
I’m kidding of course. The average lefty can’t find enough other lefties they agree with to make a circle jerk.
All the left seems able to do is call everyone else a fascist and tell them they’re all awful for not agreeing with their ideological purity obsessions.
We need to actually appeal to people sometimes, actually talk about difficult subjects that affect people rather than just aay they’re horrible for not putting ideology above all else.
A few positive ideas that actually make people think it’ll be better for them if the left is in power
many parties are active in this, the party i am a member of are having a push towards “fight bosses not migrants” we do need unity of the working class and calling working class people fascists will only push them deeper into their corners.
the other day i spoke to someone about politics, he complained of housing prices, stagnating wages then exclaimed “its socialism” bottom line: he isn’t a fascist but where he gets his information from is fascist.We need to actually appeal to people sometimes, actually talk about difficult subjects that affect people
One side wants to talk about housing, public pensions, public healthcare, public education, salaries, discrimination against women and minorities, and work/life balance.
The other side wants to talk about immigrants being bad and evil, and about how trans people in films are turning their children gay
Wat?
Yeah it’s the liberals, ignore the horseshoe
This horseshoe?
I can’t tell if your sarcastic or seriois, because this meme is about as absurd as horshoe theory. Distributism on the right? Really?
Strangely, socialism being at the center and liberalism at the far-left doesn’t make you bat an eye 😂
It’s not the centre, it’s the high point.
Horseshoe theory isn’t real, Hitler and his fascists had to actively pretend to be Socialists to get votes - that’s not “horseshoe theory” it’s fascists actively lying.
Fascism defends corporations, capitalism, and the wealthy. It’s “Capitalism’s immune system”. Hence it requires deception.
Socialism defends the workers and community, It’s the Poor’s, working class, and underprivileged’s immune system… Then only in later or it’s own abusive, incomplete, or corrupted forms can it be weilded as the party/Authoritarian’s immune system. Only when it becomes a state based fascism is horseshoe theory credible.
It’s the lack of democracy that is the difference. Democratic systems favour the majority, only when they fail is fascism produced. Nothing to do with Socialism (which requires a form of democracy where the proletariat majority is supposed to dictate what is to be done).
“Elite Panic” is an example of this. The wealthy minority are the status quo, the community is the rest of is.
It’s when that majority ceases to get a say that socialism is dissolved and a state authoritarianism can take over. But under honest analysis, that’s a new elite having taken over, NOT Socialism. It’s Socialism in name only, state fascism or authoritarianism in actuality.
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Oh fuck off lmao. This post explicitly said France and your immediate response is to pretend that the internet belongs to Americans. Get a grip.
…and maybe consider pressuring your party to consider its own policy of pandering to fascism (Kamala was at AIPAC the other day, despite their known election interference in support of Israel).
Not everything is a Trump conspiracy - mf couldn’t even hide his ear for long enough to make it obvious that he was vastly overreacting about how much damage the bullet did.
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I want what you are smoking
This is a leftist community, if you don’t like it join some “progressive” Liberal community where they’re so focused on “harm reduction” that genocide becomes an acceptable tradeoff
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Fascism and genocide is bad regardless of where it is, yes that includes China
