Again, I don’t see anyone saying that they’re planning to lie in order to claim fraud.
I’m also not entirely convinced that a hand count can be manipulated as easily as you’re suggesting based on the election work I’ve been involved in.
This honestly seems like one of those times that a stopped clock is right, a person truly believes there is gonna be fraud or recognizes that there are gonna be claims of it and pushes to prepare for the worst.
Let me flip the script on you:
Georgia was the focus of a lot of claims of election fraud last time around. If your goal was to build trust in the election process there, wouldn’t you want to go ahead and be prepared for the worst, a hand count?
Okay, you and the Georgia board of elections disagree about the 2020 result.
What is the right way to go about building trust in the election process in that circumstance?
Is it to just tell the people who think there was manipulation to sit down and shut up or is it to go ahead and prepare for the inevitable accusations of manipulation?
What im trying to make clear here is that I think that the board of elections is making the right call, even if they don’t think hand counts are inherently better like I do, and even if they’re nefariouslly planning to drum up unfounded accusations of manipulation, because they’re making the call that has the most opportunity to build trust in the election process back up.
Remove them from office or change the law so that office they hold does exist or change the power the office holds so it can’t do the kinds of things they want to do.
I’m sorry for not replying to you sooner, I couldn’t find any examples of people lying to claim fraud in that article.
I read it a bunch of times and it’s very possible that I missed it, so point it out if you think so.
That’s why I didn’t get back to you till now.
I’ve really tried to not argue from the standpoint that hand counting is ontologically good, but that there’s a reason why in this case, in this election, under the conditions that Georgia is and will be under, hand counting is a better choice.
In a bunch of comments up the chain I say as much and I’ve been trying to stay consistent with that.
I’m really not willfully trying to avoid the point.
I did go back and look at the comments and there were people doubting hand counting. I think this is misplaced and I do agree with your sentiment against this.
That is all fine and dandy, but in the context of what is going on right now in Georgia calling for hand counting in the 11th hour is asinine. There are many elections officials that are conspiracing as we discuss this.
The fact that people are on here doubting hand counting is a symptom of the discord that sowing election misinformation leads to.
This is the real issue, that we are allowing our systems to get damaged by falsehoods. Until we stop the lies things will stay shitty.
i agree that we need to build trust in the process. I think the right way to do that is to go ahead with a hand count. if they’re conspiring to cast doubt like you’re saying, it’s the way to put a stop to that line of thinking.
be realistic here, georgia was the subject of allegations of tampering last time around and just because of that there will be allegations this time around. it would have been better to prepare earlier but the unserious move is to wait till election night to start the hand tally.
It doesn’t if the people doing the counting are interested in creating bogus claims of fraud.
Again, I don’t see anyone saying that they’re planning to lie in order to claim fraud.
I’m also not entirely convinced that a hand count can be manipulated as easily as you’re suggesting based on the election work I’ve been involved in.
This honestly seems like one of those times that a stopped clock is right, a person truly believes there is gonna be fraud or recognizes that there are gonna be claims of it and pushes to prepare for the worst.
Let me flip the script on you:
Georgia was the focus of a lot of claims of election fraud last time around. If your goal was to build trust in the election process there, wouldn’t you want to go ahead and be prepared for the worst, a hand count?
They’re already lying about past events which makes it clear that they’re going to keep on lying.
Okay, you and the Georgia board of elections disagree about the 2020 result.
What is the right way to go about building trust in the election process in that circumstance?
Is it to just tell the people who think there was manipulation to sit down and shut up or is it to go ahead and prepare for the inevitable accusations of manipulation?
What im trying to make clear here is that I think that the board of elections is making the right call, even if they don’t think hand counts are inherently better like I do, and even if they’re nefariouslly planning to drum up unfounded accusations of manipulation, because they’re making the call that has the most opportunity to build trust in the election process back up.
How should it be?
You can’t with them, because their aim is to destroy trust, not create it.
If you can’t build trust with a group what do you think is the way forward?
Take away their power to destroy trust, which is what they’re there for.
How so?
Remove them from office or change the law so that office they hold does exist or change the power the office holds so it can’t do the kinds of things they want to do.
“Again, I don’t see anyone saying that they’re planning to lie in order to claim fraud.”
Everyone here has taken a lot of time to explain this to you. Here is an article that explains what is really going on.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/18/trump-election-georgia
This is the opposite of building trust.
It is just “hand counting good” with you and frankly it makes you look stupid because you are willfully missing the point.
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I’m sorry for not replying to you sooner, I couldn’t find any examples of people lying to claim fraud in that article.
I read it a bunch of times and it’s very possible that I missed it, so point it out if you think so.
That’s why I didn’t get back to you till now.
I’ve really tried to not argue from the standpoint that hand counting is ontologically good, but that there’s a reason why in this case, in this election, under the conditions that Georgia is and will be under, hand counting is a better choice.
In a bunch of comments up the chain I say as much and I’ve been trying to stay consistent with that.
I’m really not willfully trying to avoid the point.
I did go back and look at the comments and there were people doubting hand counting. I think this is misplaced and I do agree with your sentiment against this.
That is all fine and dandy, but in the context of what is going on right now in Georgia calling for hand counting in the 11th hour is asinine. There are many elections officials that are conspiracing as we discuss this.
The fact that people are on here doubting hand counting is a symptom of the discord that sowing election misinformation leads to.
This is the real issue, that we are allowing our systems to get damaged by falsehoods. Until we stop the lies things will stay shitty.
i agree that we need to build trust in the process. I think the right way to do that is to go ahead with a hand count. if they’re conspiring to cast doubt like you’re saying, it’s the way to put a stop to that line of thinking.
be realistic here, georgia was the subject of allegations of tampering last time around and just because of that there will be allegations this time around. it would have been better to prepare earlier but the unserious move is to wait till election night to start the hand tally.