- cross-posted to:
- pirati@feddit.it
- cross-posted to:
- pirati@feddit.it
This affects all browsers and not just Chrome, as the media falsely reported it. Mozilla just rolled out a fix, and Brave is looking into it. This bug is likely related to the “zero-click” iOS 0day that was reported by Citizenlab last week.
now whilst i know why people like webp, maybe we could stop using formats owned by google…
until jpegxl becomes viable (which it mainly isn’t because it compete[s/d] with webp), lets stick to nice formats not owned by tech giants, like apng?
Problem is, it takes a huge brand like Google or Apple to push a new format for something basic like images. Do you know how many alternative image formats exist that have tried to be the next jpg/gif/png? Hundreds.
I just really wish people would stop clinging to these old formats, especially gif. Maybe when the tech giants get some traction with webp, more open alternatives can get popular as well, once people realize that jpg and gif aren’t the end of everything, and app developers get off their fat asses and start supporting other formats too. It just needs to start somewhere.
Just like ogg probably wouldn’t be a thing if commercial mp3 didn’t pave the way, or we probably wouldn’t have divx/h264… without Real Media and Quick Time. Signal wouldn’t be so popular either without the likes of Skype and Viber.
Of course I’d prefer open, free standards from the start, but you can see how fucking lazy people are (both users and developers) to support new formats.
That said, it’s not like webp is closed or anything, so I’m ok with it.
jpegxl actually has pretty good support - affinity, photoshop, gimp, krita, etc. all support it fine
it’s only chrome/electron that’s holding it back (even firefox supported it until chrome dropped support). i don’t think it’s lazyness
i have no love for gif (hence i use apng), but all the other alternatives are either videos so show controls by default, not widely supported, or webp. i realise webp is objectively the better format for most things, but i still argue it’s existence is a net negative effect
webp may be open (although actually i’d argue it isn’t, the licences for the decoder and the format itself are both very woolly), but as it’s actively contributing to enshittification by holding back truly open formats i’d say that doesn’t really matter
Sorry, 5 graphics programs isn’t “support”. You need support from the millon mobile apps, web sites and image and web libraries. A format that you can only use by yourself or with a handful professionals is useless in practice.
Ed: look at the list of formats supported by XnView
There’s been hundreds of new image formats in the last ~20 years, and none has gotten anywhere.
Even PNG needed a decade for some things to support it properly, and that one really had a brand new massive use case.
People use gif to make videos for crying out loud, and bitch about webp all the time, that’s how massive the pushback against new formats is.
Do you really think jpegxl would get anywhere by itself? No, it would be the same as with jpeg2000 and tons of other formats - first supported by a handful of programs, but not used by anyone else and then forgotten.
i gave those because they’re the most pertinent programmes for people dealing with creating & editing images. there are mobile (or at least android) libraries; and web is the issue i’m talking about - it’s hampered by chromium. there are more here if you’re interested.
and i’d say that’s not bad for a format that’s only a few years old
i don’t know what this is supposed to mean. xnview supports jxl
because png is good. i’m not defending gif or jpeg, they suck. but png is simple, fast to decode, and open by design. there have been better formats, but not paradigm shiftingly better. it may not be the best as an image format, but it is good
yeah that’s my point, jxl has been adopted faster than png or webp (it was only officially standardised in 2022!)
i really don’t think many people use gif. most people use gifv or similar (usually webm) without realising it. apart from its very specific use case, gif sucks; so most software automatically converts to something else
jpeg2k had major issues other than a lack of support - jxl has deliberately avoided those pitfalls
That’s not how people use images. For an image format to be viable, you need your camera to support it, your gallery app/program to support it, the web sites you upload it to, the messaging platforms you share it through.
If there’s a break in the chain, people will screenshot the picture as png and bitch to you that you’re using something weird.
I’ve been trying to get people to use or support image formats for 15 years, previously as a tech journalist too, and the resistance is totally absurd. “Why change what works”, “just because it’s new doesn’t mean I have to use it” are the typical responses you get from everyone.
Oh you’d be surprised… Gaming videos on Steam, screen recordings, porn clips by amateurs, or just random clips, the amount of low-res gifs with 10s of MB in size is crazy.
Sure, it’s shitty of Google to drop the support, but from experience I’m still unfortunately 100% sure it wouldn’t have gotten anywhere.
Heck, Apple has been using HEIF for years and that’s a trillion dollar company with a huge market share, and you still get shitton of places where you can’t use it.
yes. i agree. but that’s my exact point. if i make an image then upload it to the internet - the only software that’s involved is on my side (gimp, ps, whatever[1]) and the browser of the person viewing it. if it was supported in chromium, that’s automatically available in chrome, edge, vivaldi, brave, discord, element, spotify, whatever other chromium-embedded or electron apps you care to name. given the (unfortunate) prominence of electron-based programmes nowadays; that’s good enough for anyone who isn’t a professional, and they’re already fine. fuck it, it has the joint photographic experts group behind it - they’re quite a big name in photography
meh, i haven’t seen any in the past ~5 years apart from ones specifically chosen for that 256 colour æsthetic; but i will believe you
it did get places. it has got places. again, it’s very new and is already well supported
jpeg2k failed because of licencing and royalty issues[2]. heif hasn’t spread because of licencing and royalty issues. in my personal opinion, webp has licencing issues. png didn’t. jpeg (sort of) didn’t. jxl doesn’t.
but anyways, this isn’t a pro-jxl comment; it’s an anti-webp comment. i used jxl as an example of why webp, and its adoption, is making the web worse even though it’s better than png from a technical standpoint
or camera, you’re right; but i’m pretty sure that A) there are some cameras that support it already, and B) again, the jpe group have a considerable amount of sway so i’m sure they could persuade most camera manufacturers to support it ↩︎
i mean, as well as the fact it didn’t really bring anything new to the table. but that’s a whole other point ↩︎