Scott M. Stolz

It’s not just that they may not care. They may not know what they’re being asked or know what the consequences are for choosing either option. Then they sit there for 30 minutes searching the internet for what the question means.

@julian Many of the comments in this thread are appearing in Hubzilla as being from [email protected] instead of the real author.

P.S. I’d start a new topic for this but I don’t know how remotely.

@julian Sorry if I was a bit salty earlier and I didn’t want to rain on anyone’s parade.

There are many benefits to this proposed variation of quote posts where the person being quoted can update or delete their quote.

Let me argue the other side then.

One big benefit of this proposed quote post methodology is that it would be a version that Mastodon, et. al. would probably be willing to support. They have valid concerns that people will abuse quote posts to harass others. This proposal mitigates that.

It also is useful in non-malicious contexts since people can fix typos and errors in their original post. It’s also useful if the person being quoted wants to retract what they said, perhaps because they changed their mind on a topic or found new information.

Malicious use can be mitigated in the UI by indicating the quoted person changed their post and providing a history of changes. Some platforms already do this for regular posts.

The quoted person being able to delete their quote raises some unique philosophical questions, like whether a politician can delete something they said from a journalist’s quote post. Or where someone intentionally changes their post in a malicious manner, which alters the quote post and makes the person quoting someone else look bad.

So, there are many facets to this proposal. It still may be good to pursue even if some platforms aren’t going to implement it. But there are also some scenarios we want to consider.

@julian To be fair, platforms that don’t have quote posts might be interested in this, since they can offer quote posts without the risk.

@julian I don’t think that will matter. People who want a quote that cannot be deleted with figure that out and will pick the method that makes the quote undeletable. It seems like a lot of work for something that people will simply bypass.

@julian Or, to put it more diplomatically and to give a little context, this argument over blockquotes has been going on for about 8 years now. I don’t think everyone is going to be on board with a single solution.

@julian By the way, edits don’t appear to be appearing on NodeBB. I fixed a typo, but NodeBB still displays it.

@julian

It’s not a matter of “before Mastodon” and “after Mastodon”, at all.

I was trying not to state this so bluntly, but basically, platforms that came before Mastodon has blockquotes before Mastodon existed. We did not get rid of them in 2016, and we aren’t getting rid of them now.

So, even if you implement this proposed feature, which is your right, some platforms will stay with the tried and true blockquotes.

@julian It’s interesting how different platforms implement things. Some platforms, like Friendica, tell you which platform someone is using by showing a little icon next to their name on all of their posts (Mastodon icon, Hubzilla icon, potentially a NodeBB icon, etc.), whereas Mastodon makes it appear as if everyone is on Mastodon. Some Mastodon users are not even aware that they are talking to people on other platforms.

The reason why I say indicating that it is a forum or group discussion is useful is not just the cultural issue, but also because replies to forum posts are distributed differently than a normal post. You are not just replying to your followers and the person who posted, but also to everyone following the forum (or forum category).

But, this is something that is nice to have, and not needed. It just is useful information to have. And I doubt that platforms like Mastodon will make such a change anyway.

It’s also interesting to see how platforms that pre-date Mastodon implement things versus platforms that came later and are influenced by Mastodon.

@Marcus Rohrmoser 🌻 Some platforms, like Hubzilla, actually tell you that the thread (conversation) you are commenting on is from a forum. It helps provide context and also lets you know your post will be distributed to forum members in addition to your own followers.

One thing that would help is if users could tell if they were replying to a forum or not. Because the rules & culture regarding forums are different than the rules & culture on micro-blogging platforms. But most platforms do not indicate this to their users.

This is one of those things where it is a culture clash.

Forums are designed for discussions, and that includes quoting what was said. The quotes are purposefully kept intact in case someone else deletes their post and falsely claimed they didn’t say that. Whereas micro-blogging platforms like Mastodon are not designed for discussions, and users tend to call anyone that replies to their post a #replyguy and hate being quoted.

Forums and Facebook-style platforms can make these changes to accommodate quotes that can be deleted by the person who was quoted. But the bigger issue is a cultural one. If a person can delete their quote, forum users will purposefully quote them in a manner that cannot be deleted, even if it means just copy and pasting the text, because forums have a culture of holding people accountable for what they post.

I am not sure how you will resolve this cultural issue with technology. There are too many ways to bypass it.

:slightly_smiling_face: