196 had extreme crossover with the vaush sub, I think mods too? Either way I got banned for shittalking NATO there over 3 years ago and haven’t bothered to check in since.
I didn’t participate in 196 when I was on Reddit. And I’ve just now learned about Vaush. For what it’s worth, I haven’t seen him mentioned on this 196.
Although I’m pro-NATO. I’ve no way to know how representative that stance is of the general user base of this instance. But I’m of the opinion that it’s a common position.
I really don’t understand how someone can come the conclusion that NATO is a good thing? :/ They’ve carried out some absolutely awful military operations that have taken many lives. They are not, in any way, a “defensive alliance” and have never acted like one. Like, the bare minimum that I ask is “Russia and NATO are both bad” (and thats not even wrong, its just said in bad faith sometimes). But outright saying NATO is good? :/
“The west” as a whole does not have a right to defend itself. “The west” is not a nation. Considering it one has white supremacist vibes, I’m sure from your other posts that you don’t intend them, but the implications are there.
You have been lied to about Yugoslavia. In fact, the bombing of Yugoslavia would have been one of the atrocities I brought up, considering the 500 civilian deaths and 6000 civilian wounded that resulted from it. At the very least, while there may have been a genocide going on there, NATO’s goals were not to stop it. It was an excuse to enforce further western hegemony over the region. I Unfortunately I am not prepared with sources on that issue so I hope someone else in this thread will come through with some for you. I always forget to bookmark sources even though I know I’ll need them later. You’ll just hopefully trust me that I have read stuff about this before. I just forgot to save it.
Lastly, its stated goals mean nothing to me when they supported the invasion of Afghanistan (as just one example). Was that a defensive war?
“The west” as a whole does not have a right to defend itself. “The west” is not a nation. Considering it one has white supremacist vibes, I’m sure from your other posts that you don’t intend them, but the implications are there.
We have the collective right to defend ourselves. Individually any one European nation would be hard pressed to defend against Russia on its own. I don’t see how self defense gives off white supremacy vibes. NATO existing as a defensive alliance doesn’t prevent anyone else from doing the same thing.
Bookmarking stuff can get quickly out of hand. If you find it later post it here I guess. I think we are going to have agree to disagree. There was genocide happening in Yugoslavia. NATO intervened to stop it. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Lastly, its stated goals mean nothing to me when they supported the invasion of Afghanistan (as just one example). Was that a defensive war?
The Taliban harbored al-Qaeda which used Afghanistan as its base of operations when it coordinate the 9/11 and 7/7 terrorist attacks. So yes.
The sarcasm has not been missed. Yugoslavia was where the Bosnian genocide took place, NATO intervened. Afghanistan harbored al-Qaeda. Honestly Iraq seems like it was a personal vendetta for Bush backed up by his think tank that thought they could impose democracy.
The observed baseline for libs on reddit is defending as if it’s a left wing position because the republicans are ‘worse’, with lots of unexamined western chauvinism piled on top, and hostile misogyny if you push back on it.
Obama was president when NATO returned the slave trade to Libya- to quote his secretary of state Hillary Clinton: “we came, we saw, he died”. I’m sure you have all sorts of state-approved positions on Americas state enemies, but that’s the historical reality you’re whitewashing.
I’ll admit my knowledge on US involvement in Libya is lacking. I was a junior in high school at the time and I don’t remember hearing much about it. I’ll have to read up on it if I’m going to debate it with you. At a glance, it looks Obama would agree with you. Reestablishing the slave trade in Libya doesn’t seem to be the outcome he was hoping for. edit: typo
Not from what I’ve heard. edit:spacing
The vaush meme subreddit creeped me out.
What was that subreddit about? =/
196 had extreme crossover with the vaush sub, I think mods too? Either way I got banned for shittalking NATO there over 3 years ago and haven’t bothered to check in since.
Are you talking about this guy?
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/vaush
I didn’t participate in 196 when I was on Reddit. And I’ve just now learned about Vaush. For what it’s worth, I haven’t seen him mentioned on this 196.
Although I’m pro-NATO. I’ve no way to know how representative that stance is of the general user base of this instance. But I’m of the opinion that it’s a common position.
I really don’t understand how someone can come the conclusion that NATO is a good thing? :/ They’ve carried out some absolutely awful military operations that have taken many lives. They are not, in any way, a “defensive alliance” and have never acted like one. Like, the bare minimum that I ask is “Russia and NATO are both bad” (and thats not even wrong, its just said in bad faith sometimes). But outright saying NATO is good? :/
The West has the right to defend itself. As does everyone.
NATO has intervened to stop genocide.
NATO is in fact a defensive alliance. Here is article 5.
“The west” as a whole does not have a right to defend itself. “The west” is not a nation. Considering it one has white supremacist vibes, I’m sure from your other posts that you don’t intend them, but the implications are there.
You have been lied to about Yugoslavia. In fact, the bombing of Yugoslavia would have been one of the atrocities I brought up, considering the 500 civilian deaths and 6000 civilian wounded that resulted from it. At the very least, while there may have been a genocide going on there, NATO’s goals were not to stop it. It was an excuse to enforce further western hegemony over the region. I Unfortunately I am not prepared with sources on that issue so I hope someone else in this thread will come through with some for you. I always forget to bookmark sources even though I know I’ll need them later. You’ll just hopefully trust me that I have read stuff about this before. I just forgot to save it.
Lastly, its stated goals mean nothing to me when they supported the invasion of Afghanistan (as just one example). Was that a defensive war?
They really are a step away from reciting the 14 words
We have the collective right to defend ourselves. Individually any one European nation would be hard pressed to defend against Russia on its own. I don’t see how self defense gives off white supremacy vibes. NATO existing as a defensive alliance doesn’t prevent anyone else from doing the same thing.
Bookmarking stuff can get quickly out of hand. If you find it later post it here I guess. I think we are going to have agree to disagree. There was genocide happening in Yugoslavia. NATO intervened to stop it. Not everything is a conspiracy.
The Taliban harbored al-Qaeda which used Afghanistan as its base of operations when it coordinate the 9/11 and 7/7 terrorist attacks. So yes.
sure were amazing defensive actions in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and Iraq
The sarcasm has not been missed. Yugoslavia was where the Bosnian genocide took place, NATO intervened. Afghanistan harbored al-Qaeda. Honestly Iraq seems like it was a personal vendetta for Bush backed up by his think tank that thought they could impose democracy.
So this is the PPB right? What do you think this achieves besides sharing a funny picture? Or is it just a way to mark me for being swarmed?
The observed baseline for libs on reddit is defending
as if it’s a left wing position because the republicans are ‘worse’, with lots of unexamined western chauvinism piled on top, and hostile 
misogyny if you push back on it.
Obama was president when NATO returned the slave trade to Libya- to quote his secretary of state Hillary Clinton: “we came, we saw, he died”. I’m sure you have all sorts of state-approved positions on Americas state enemies, but that’s the historical reality you’re whitewashing.
I’ll admit my knowledge on US involvement in Libya is lacking. I was a junior in high school at the time and I don’t remember hearing much about it. I’ll have to read up on it if I’m going to debate it with you. At a glance, it looks Obama would agree with you. Reestablishing the slave trade in Libya doesn’t seem to be the outcome he was hoping for. edit: typo
https://www.newsweek.com/obama-responsible-libyan-slave-trade-730875
From the article you just posted, I clicked the link to read what he actually said, and I read it as he expressed regret for not intervening more!
It’s like criminals expressing regret for getting caught.
Yeah, I think he didn’t want to leave Libya in the mess it was in. That’s my assessment at a glance.