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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering.
An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he’s in isn’t accommodating his vegan diet.
This is a completely different topic but okay.
Since you want specifics, veganism isn’t actually about animals, its about sentient beings. I wouldn’t eat a cow or a dog or a human, because they each have the capacity to suffer and the desire to live. Anything that has this capacity is off the table for vegans. Even bugs, while obviously being less sentient than a cow or human, still demonstrate this in some capacity. So no, I just eat plants and fungi. Technically I could eat a jellyfish or even an oyster (although vegans debate it), since this capacity has not been demonstrated by them. Why would I harm others for my own pleasure/sustenance when there is an alternative, especially an alternative that is cheaper, healthier, and far more sustainable?
Yeast is a fungus by the way.
Why would I harm others for my own pleasure/sustenance when there is an alternative…?
This, for me, has always been the very simple point and it pains me how many people just don’t get it.
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the vegan society specifically says animals
And? That’s one organizations definition, and the reason they say “all animals” is not because they give jellyfish moral value, but because most nonvegans only respect the rights of humans and a few animals like dogs and cats. So we say “all animals” to generally say we are being morally consistent. Jellyfish and oysters just happen to be edge cases of animals existing without sentience.
you can’t prove this.
well they don’t have fucking brains lol. why would an oyster evolve the capacity to suffer and fear and desire to live when they literally don’t control where they move? it would be a waste of energy. an oyster’s nervous system is about as complex as your finger…
there is no proof any nonhuman animal has a “desire to live” because there isn’t proof they understand personal mortality.
as for whether they have the capacity to suffer, which is all that sentience really seems to require, you can’t prove that they don’t have the capacity to suffer because you can’t prove a negative. the best you can say is that you don’t think there is enough evidence to support a claim that they ARE sentient.
if you saw a human from a tribe who spoke a language you would never understand, how do you know they feel pain and want to live? if you kick a dog, how do you know the dog didn’t enjoy it? maybe people who are asleep dont feel pain or want to live. lets just eat people in comas, or who speak other languages, and lets beat dogs because its so unclear whether they like it or not
Animals must just run from danger because the wind pushes them that way. Wonder why dogs wag their tails when they see humans. Strange. Nah no proof they have desires or fears
none of this is proof they understand personal mortality, which is the crux if this disagreement.
No it’s not the crux. Avoiding danger to protect their lives is pretty good proof.
A man follows a woman and she runs away.
The man: “she could still wanna have sex”
Maybe you’d be better seeing all the animals that mourn deaths of others.
maybe sentience or wanting to live aren’t metrics we should use as the basis of our morality.
no, you are just the only one stupid enough to think its unprovable
prove this. please find me any proof this is true.
Source: I’m a vegan and interact with other vegans…
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this is anecdotal, and you’ve already said you don’t agree with the vegan society, so i don’t see any reason to believe your interpretation of their very explicit claim over what they actually say.
i didnt say i don’t agree with them. I’m saying your are overanalyzing the definition. this whole argument is opinion, everything is going to be anecdotal…
i’m reading the words they wrote. you’re saying “they didn’t mean the words they wrote”
you are misusing a definition. its like using newtonian physics for large scale systems. newton wasnt wrong but his equations aren’t great for talking about galaxies and black holes.
the founder of the vegan society also coined the term vegan.
and coined it before the vegan society existed. They aren’t the owners of veganism. Its a philosophy. Don’t ignore the rest of that comment either. Or stop making this stupid point that no vegan actually believes
calling me stupid doesnt bolster your position at all.
Didn’t call you stupid, I called your point stupid. Why couldn’t you consolidate these replies?
i prefer to deal with one topic at a time.
this makes this conversation impossible to keep track of. you’re just spamming my inbox
ah, the rhetorical equivalent of a ten year old saying “i’m not touching you”.
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you’re only giving one vegan’s definition. you don’t speak for everyone.
Perfect, now we can agree the vegan society is just an organization
don’t tell me what to do
Okay continue making a stupid point instead of listening.
calling me stupid doesnt bolster your position at all.
once again, called your point stupid. you are making shit up