A tiny, low-priced electric car called the Seagull has American automakers and politicians trembling.
The car, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China, but drives well and is put together with craftsmanship that rivals U.S.-made electric vehicles that cost three times as much. A shorter-range version costs under $10,000.
Tariffs on imported Chinese vehicles probably will keep the Seagull away from America’s shores for now, and it likely would sell for more than 12 grand if imported.
But the rapid emergence of low-priced EVs from China could shake up the global auto industry in ways not seen since Japanese makers exploded on the scene during the oil crises of the 1970s. BYD, which stands for “Build Your Dreams,” could be a nightmare for the U.S. auto industry.
“Any car company that’s not paying attention to them as a competitor is going to be lost when they hit their market,” said Sam Fiorani, a vice president at AutoForecast Solutions near Philadelphia. “BYD’s entry into the U.S. market isn’t an if. It’s a when.”
A tiny, low-priced electric car called the Seagull has American automakers and politicians trembling.
Hyperbole as rhetorical device is getting exhausting and makes me extremely skeptical.
This whole article is just paid marketing. Some AP journalist didn’t tear this car down and analyze its build quality.
Specially when you see the stats and it has a 190-250 mile range and a max speed of 81 MPH. And even the article points out they cut costs with things like having only one windshield wiper.
it has a 190-250 mile range and a max speed of 81 MPH
That’s further than I’d drive before a 20 minute rest stop, and faster than it’s legal to drive anywhere in the US, except for Texas State Highway 130.
And even the article points out they cut costs with things like having only one windshield wiper.
As opposed to the Cybertruck, which has a revolutionary, but very expensive, design featuring only one windshield wiper.
Cybertruck is a bad comparison, everyone already knows that thing is a steaming pile of hot garbage.
I don’t think comparing it to cybertruck is really a win. I could be in a bubble, but I hear nothing but terrible things about them.
Also, anecdotally, going on long family trips in my van, I frequently do 350 miles between stops on 900 mile trips. I’d say 80 is a typical speed on the Ohio turnpike, but I’d be a little worried about driving that thing pedal to the floor for 2-3 hours straight (no worries though, it’ll never get that range at full speed).
That said, hey if this car meets your needs I’m all for that. Everyone should have options. I would consider buying one for my kids when they start driving as long as it’s safe in accidents.
It also doesn’t meet US auto safety standards.
I stopped reading there.
Thanks for letting us know.
a threat to US auto industry? You promise? Cus US auto industry is a climate killing powerhouse of gas guzzling SUV’s. Any politicians wanting to pretend to be capitalist, or to be in favor of the environment, let me buy this car.
No one i know under 50 years old wants a giant truck or suv, and thats all they wanna sell us. My only friends with new car $ bought a small wagon, which is all I’d want myself.
Those huge electric pickups are too heavy for our guardrails on top of everything else; it’s insane and dangerous to let the big three make car culture here even worse.
I know so many boomers with fucking monster vehicles. Even my car nut friends daily drive sedans and small EV’s. We’re not idiots or rich.
No one i know under 50 years old wants a giant truck or suv
Where could we even park them if we did? My garage barely fits the two sedans my wife and I need to get to work on opposite sides of town, in a city with functionally no mass transit.
I might not mind owning a single SUV if I used it exclusively for long trips and as a make-shift camping van. But I simply do not have the acreage in my postage-stamp lot size of a three-story walk-up to host more than that. Not that some of my neighbors don’t try, clogging all the sidewalks and curb spaces with their monster trucks.
Then you just don’t know many people. Or live in a bubble. I see people in their twenties driving trucks in the richest city in my state known for being a hyper liberal college town.
The bigger issue is the U.S. auto dealership industry.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2023/11/09/car-dealerships-ev-sales/
If dealerships refuse to sell EVs, what can be done? Especially in states where cars can only be sold from licensed dealerships?
If dealerships refuse to sell EVs, what can be done?
Direct sales, which is becoming increasingly popular in a car market where dealership market ups price people out of purchases.
Especially in states where cars can only be sold from licensed dealerships?
We’ll see how long that lasts. Dealerships are the last great American petty aristocracy in a business environment that’s increasingly all about absolute monarchies. Tesla has already been lobbying hard to overturn the ban on direct sales in Texas, and is doing plenty to end-run the system in the meanwhile. Amazon would love to get into the automotive market (we’ll see where they go with their Rivian partnership). Silicon Valley hates these guys for getting in the way of their own drop shipping schemes. And its just a matter of time before the dam bursts.
You can’t do direct sales in a lot of states.
Amazon is not a manufacturer. They should be able to act as a dealer and the only problem being all the different paperwork for all the different states
I don’t see a problem here. If the US auto makers are so worried, they should buy a few of them, copy their secrets, and sell them at a marked down price.
Turnabout is fair play, after all.They’d prefer to sell you a giant SUV or truck with massive profit margins and so they can continue to flout emissions standards.
Don’t forget our big three are just chomping at the bit to get in on the subscription model. Oh, you want ‘good’ brakes, well that’s $19.99/month. And there’s no ‘secrets’ to the chinese cars, I am willing to bet that they are just selling them at a loss. It’s not like they have to report real earnings to anyone.
They are just trying to kill the entire car industry. Which, at this point I could give a shit about. Car manufacturer seem to think that a car should be an investment… Except it depreciates.
Personally I’m not sure I would want that car as my only vehicle because I only have space for one car, but if I get a bigger place with a two car garage I would definitely be interested in a small electric car that doesn’t break my budget. I would probably use it 1/5 trips.
I saw an article somewhere on lemmy recently that had some commentary from an American tear-down r&d type shop that said they think BYD makes a small profit on them
Very interesting. But the cynic in me says that even if we could tear it down and learn from it, we would manage to negate the savings with other costs. If they are making a profit, even if it’s tiny, that would still negate the tin foil hat people from being able to say they are just using them in infiltrate our nation with their spying and devious ways. Well one would think, but tin foil hat people will find a way to work around that, because what’s the best way to hide that you are infiltrating our nation then making it look like you are making a tiny profit. (Taps forehead…)
This is an EV. There isn’t any emissions to be concerned about. At least not from the car itself.
They sell what buyers want. Look at sales numbers of small cars versus everything else.
So small imported EVs aren’t actually a threat, then?
They are a threat when they’re sold well below cost due to the Chinese government’s massive subsidies which make it impossible for any other non-Chinese manufacturer in the world to compete with them.
Buyers do not want them, at least not anymore
They’ve been saying that axing the small sedan was to put money into EV. Seems they lied to pocket it, but we get nothing because free market capitalism is bullshit.
That article simply states the sales of the Dodge Ram and Ford F150 were down last quarter and makes no mention of any other segment or manufacturer. Dodge hasn’t made a small sedan since 2016 and Ford hasn’t made one since 2020
Huh, and I haven’t bought a vehicle from either since before then. What an amazing coincidence!
They built pretty shitty cars anyways so its no great loss
Someone has to pay for the R&D to make EV’s possible. So far, that’s not BYD. It’s been US and European countries.
The problem is the companies in China are backed by government funding that allows them to operate at a loss. To be clear, no governments should be spending public funds on propping up automotive companies. It’s a move to try and manipulate the market.
The problem is the companies in China are backed by government funding that allows them to operate at a loss.
So are the Big Three, every time they fail to see what’s in front of their noses and get into trouble.
And they are setup for another fail right now, nothing but suvs on their lots and realistically gas has nowhere to go but up again.
Should’ve let them fall last time instead of the big bailouts.
nothing but suvs on their lots
Not true. They also have trucks
Who are the Big Three to you? Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep is owned by a Scandanavian company.
If that were actually the case wouldn’t we want them sold here at a loss so we could drain resources from the Chinese government.
OK but let’s talk about the practical thing, how do I, a random American, get one?
I don’t know if the laws have changed but (for some reason I forget), a dealership hear imported two three-wheeled small pickup trucks from China within the last decade or so. So it was at least possible within the recent past somehow.
Drive it over the border from Mexico. Although, you’ll likely have to pay above the sticker price. Latin Americans are gobbling up Chinese NEVs as fast as they can deliver them.
How do you, an average American, purchase an anti-worker product created by an adversary government? Simple, you move to China along with the rest of the American CEOs.
Anti worker. Riiight.
That’s just you speaking the Big Three’s mantra. If they’d gotten off their rich asses and developed the tech for cheap, well-built EVs sooner they wouldn’t need Big Brother to run to their aid.
This is no different than what happened in the 70’s, so obviously they never learned their lesson then. This round, it’s time they did.
This isn’t about technology at all. It’s about labor costs. UAW labor costs more because its workers are paid well and they don’t get maimed by robots much. If in doubt, check the profit margins of the Big Three. The higher labor cost is also required because the standard of living is completely different. People in NA can’t work for Chinese wages and survive. And if you want to create a race to the bottom, that’s anti-worker. The shareholder class of the Big Three is still making disproportionately more than workers but this is one of the North American examples where there’s much more balance between them and workers.
Honda and Toyota posed the same problem and they were forced to create factories here in order to eliminate the labor cost disparity that would have destroyed the lives of UAW members. I don’t think many would have a problem with BYD building NA factories, especially if unionized by the UAW.
@Buelldozer is right, he’s just being extra spicy about it.
UAW labor costs more because its workers are paid well
UAW labor doesn’t cost more because its workers are paid well. UAW labor costs more because of our private health care system dumping workers into an extractive for-profit insurance system and the pensions system has been defrauded for decades. And even then, the margins on these vehicles are such that labor costs are negligible, particularly with the enormous amount of automation that goes into line work now.
That’s before you get into how many auto plants have been de-unionized, either by moving them south of the Mason-Dixon Line or by setting up two-tiered contracts that phase out older union workers for younger scabs.
People in NA can’t work for Chinese wages and survive.
That’s because they don’t have access to Chinese state benefits. No state pensions. No state health care. Stripped down public education. Crappy old roads instead of public rail. 90% of the population owning their homes rather than renting. Medicare and SS benefit cuts forcing folks to work into their 70s and 80s, rather than retiring comfortably at the age of 54
That’s why Chinese labor is cheaper.
Honda and Toyota posed the same problem and they were forced to create factories here in order to eliminate the labor cost disparity that would have destroyed the lives of UAW members.
Toyota plants aren’t unionized. We just saw an effort to unionize a plant in Troy, Michigan this year and its been fought tooth and nail by the industry.
“paid well” only has meaning in the context of standard of living, or cost of living. You provided that context. Within it they’re paid relatively well. They’re not getting state pensions or healthcare anytime soon so we work within the context.
You provided that context. Within it they’re paid relatively well.
This is no different than the 70s tho, when the oil crisis and subsequent importation of compact vehicles forced the Big Three to mothball the ‘boats’.
BYD would likely want to gauge support in America before committing to building factories, especially in a nation where land prices have skyrocketed.
and they don’t get maimed by robots much
???
- Is there evidence that Chinese workers have high high rates of this?
- People are getting maimed at Tesla plants all the time.
- The US created the neoliberal WTO to crush labor rights worldwide, worker safety among them. The only reason the US is sabotaging the WTO now is because that system no longer favors it.
.
Honda and Toyota posed the same problem and they were forced to create factories here in order to eliminate the labor cost disparity that would have destroyed the lives of UAW members.
I don’t understand. Were Honda & Toyota forced to, or did they do it out of the kindness of their hearts?
@Buelldozer is right, he’s just being extra spicy about it.
You’re darn right I’m being extra spicy. This is a re-run of what I watched happen with textiles, steel, and other manufacturing businesses here in the United States and especially industries that were heavily unionized and thus had higher labor costs.
It’s astonishing to see so many people willing to kill their Domestic Labor just so they can get a cheap car. It’s disgustingly short sighted and selfish.
Yeah I’m a bit puzzled because I think these folks are supportive of labor given they seem positive about workers in China having better safety nets. Yet letting cars in that will destroy local manufacturing isn’t going to do anything positive for North American labor. If anything is going to help, it’s supporting them instead of non-union car makers and supporting union action at non-union manufacturers. I’m of the opinion that we can’t expect any improvements from the political class before we take more of the profits so we can buy those politicians like corporations have. They simply won’t represent labor to a significant extent unless they see workers as organized voting blocks that don’t lap up corporate propaganda.
I’m of the opinion that we can’t expect any improvements from the political class before we take more of the profits so we can buy those politicians like corporations have.
The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house. — Audre Lorde
I don’t think we should try to play the game by the capitalist class’ own rules, which they created for themselves. We’re never going to be able buy the political system by outspending the capitalist class: they own the means of production and it’s their political system.
Right now labor is very divided, shattered. It was significantly more organized a hundred years ago, though still divided along racial lines, a mistake we mustn’t repeat. People don’t seem to remember now how many socialists existed back then and were deeply involved in that organizing, before they were crushed by red scares and other skulduggery. And unfortunately almost all of our surviving unions came from explicitly anti-socialist roots, the others having been purged. Socialists are still extremely few in the US.
We can’t buy government, and we know our vote alone has very little power. What we need is a resurgent, re-organized labor movement, and new labor media (we used to have our own newspapers!) to counteract corporate media, and we need new mass industrial actions that fit today’s material conditions*. That’s how we forced the state to make concessions in the past.
*Simply organizing “blue collar” workers again won’t cut it, because many of us are not that now.
Anti worker. Riiight.
Are you seriously trying to make the claim that a Chinese auto worker is doing as well as a UAW member? If you are I want proof, if not then what are you talking about?
If they’d gotten off their rich asses and developed the tech for cheap, well-built EVs sooner they wouldn’t need Big Brother to run to their aid.
You realize it’s “cheap” in China because their Government subsidizes it and the manufacturers abuse their employees, right?
This round, it’s time they did.
I have no love for the American Auto Industry but this idea that BYD or any other Chinese “New Energy” vehicle is competing on anything like a level playing field is ludicrous. They are cheap because they pay their workers like dogshit, they treat their workers like dogshit, they have near zero environmental safety regulations, and they have near zero environmental regulations hell. 2/3rds of their electricity is produced by burning coal!
Lusting after a cheap BYD product just because you despise American Auto Manufacturers is literally cutting of your own nose in order to spite your face.
US government right now is very heavily subsidizing EVs as well. It’s not just the Chinese government. For my purchase, the direct incentives alone were $11,500 (and that doesn’t count the tens of billions in indirect subsidies) - if a legacy manufacturer could make an EV for even double the cost of BYD, I’d buy it since my cost would be the same
I’ll give you higher wages and move the goalposts toward you to account for it …… let’s say double the price. Where is my flood of EVs from legacy manufacturers for no more than double the price of Chinese manufacturers?
US government right now is very heavily subsidizing EVs as well.
What you refer to as “heavily” (~15B across four years) is what China spent per year every year from 2009 through 2022, for a total of 173 Billion dollars. Their latest package, announced last September, will have them spending 73$ Billion across the next four years. Their Government has literally been subsidizing EV production at 3-4 times the rate of the United States for over a decade! Yeah, that’s a totally level playing field. No shenanigans there, no Sir.
let’s say double the price.
As the article notes the Seagull, rebadged as a Dolphin Mini, sells for $21,000 in Latin America so you aren’t going to get it for $24,000 in the United States and most especially not if it’s built here where they can’t employ people for 5 USD an hour.
You don’t have to like it, or me, but it’s completely irrefutable that the 12,000 price is only possible due enormous government subsidies and cheap Chinese labor. Allowing those vehicles into the United States is the end of all domestic auto manufacturing, not just the Big 3, and all of the workers who are employed there. We already watched this play out with Steel, Textiles, and other manufacturing based industries.
It’s why the United States has pursued a policy of taxing vehicles extra unless they are built in the US or a NAFTA country.
literally cutting of your own nose
“Literally”? Really? People lusting after BYD products have no noses now?
That’s the only thing you respond to?
I always was under the impression that america is similarly anti-worker, esp. hearing news about tesla strikes. Probably not as extreme as China though if you compare safety standards. When I look at car companies, there is honestly no good option that I would happily support by buying from. What do you mean about CEOs moving to China, is this a thing?
an anti-worker product
Lolz. Lmao even.
Leverage your precious free market capitalism and compete, assholes. It’s not a threat, it’s an opportunity.
So, there’s a guy Silicon Valley Billionaire named Peter Thiel who released a book back in 2014 called “Zero to One”, in which he advocates for the monopoly system and claims any good businessman ultimately seeks to corner the market.
The US car market has been consolidating over the last 40 years, in an effort to cartelize and ultimately monopolize the automotive industry. We’ve passed a host of regulations and taxes that compel foreign manufacturers to build and assemble cars domestically, to partner with US car firms, and to absorb parts of the market American firms don’t want to occupy (US firms have functionally given up making small cars - almost everything is a truck or an SUV now). And we’ve unleashed our investment banks on East Asian industries, guaranteeing financial control of the largest firms in Korea, Japan, The Phillipines, and Taiwan via our international system of credits and debits.
The goal was never free markets, it was captured revenue streams. As we enter a new high surveillance age, vehicles are increasingly part of the always-on Internet Of Things information network used to continuously monitor anyone with enough money to afford a cellular device.
Excising firms like Huawei, ByteDance, and now BYD from the US marketplace is about cementing that captured state of the American economy and tightening the surveillance network. These are absolutely perceived of as threats, because they don’t integrate into our controlled networks. Until Chinese businesses are willing to submit to Five-Eyes surveillance and the Chicago School Economics of the New York banks, they’re not welcome in our country.
China: offers affordable EV
US Auto: NOoooooooooooooo!!
I won’t defend the US auto industry, but there are issues in play here that might not be obvious. For example:
Those are just excuses:
- Dumping: US auto industry is enjoying significant protectionism right now, with the excuse of combatting dumping. They have a grace period to catch up, but instead they’re backing off, retreating into their shells. We’re spending hundreds of billions of dollars to give them a chance to compete fairly and they’re throwing it away. I’ll have sympathy if they at least try.
- Surveillance: US auto industry and especially EVs are horrible with surveillance right now. You not only have no privacy, they commonly have cameras inside and can control your vehicle remotely. Those Chinese surveillance devices aren’t doing anything different from anyone else: they’re all violating our privacy and we have no protection. It’s not that I’m not afraid of Chinese surveillance devices but that I’m also afraid of US corporate surveillance devices. Let a have some actual privacy protections we can apply equally and fairly to all of them
Those are just excuses
They might be used as excuses by a complacent industry, but they are not just excuses. They are also valid reasons for concern, and would still be so even if not used as talking points for Detroit lobbyists.
US auto industry is enjoying significant protectionism right now
Regardless of that, China’s government has spent more than a few years subsidizing products and services in order to make their exports dirt cheap abroad, eventually making other nations dependent on them. (See also: the Belt and Road Initiative.) This fits the same pattern, and would still be a problem even if US auto industry protectionism didn’t exist.
US auto industry and especially EVs are horrible with surveillance right now.
Agreed, but once again, that doesn’t invalidate the problem that I mentioned. A foreign adversary having deep, real-time access to the nation’s infrastructure, traffic patterns, sensitive information revealed through conversations and cameras, etc. is a larger problem than the personal privacy issues that already exist domestically.
Chinese surveillance devices aren’t doing anything different from anyone else: they’re all violating our privacy and we have no protection.
The difference lies in where the collected information goes. That might not matter to some people on a personal level, but on a national scale, handing all that info to an adversary nation is cause for concern.
As opposed to them buying it from data brokers? There’s a difference in responsiveness and I’m sure data brokers make a pretense of anonymizing that will need a bit of adjustment, but I’m not convinced it’s as different as everyone is afraid of
Those are probably both totally relevant points but it’s not going to matter because everyone’s suffering so much from inflation that they’ll go ahead and take the bait and buy it anyway. Even those that are aware of the intentional nature of the dumping and aware of the risks of surveillance won’t be able to responsibly buy a car that cost $60,000 when they can get one for 12k.
everyone’s suffering so much from inflation that they’ll go ahead
That, along with a bloated auto industry and terribly underdeveloped public transit. Here’s hoping this turn of events will lead to real progress in fixing these problems.
If so, it’ll be because enough people discover that the problem is the system itself.
I see your reasonable, logical arguments, and raise another Affordable EV.
The Big Three have already had Biden’s ear for a while on this, which is why he’s quadrupling tariffs on Chinese EVs this week. Source
What? The big three are trying to rig the game in their favor again? I’m very surprised! …not really, it’s business as usual from them.
It doesn’t. That car will never be here without direct investment in U.S. factories.
We have a free trade agreement with Mexico, and legacy car manufacturers are heavily dependent on Mexican factories with no tariffs or restrictions.
…. BYD has announced manufacturing in Mexico.
Even if they built them in a US factory their cars would still be better and cheaper. They just know that once they start the US will ban them like Tiktok, and they’d rather keep the battery and bus factories they already have in the US and avoid competing with anybody politically connected.
deleted by creator
I look at both sides here, where every new vehicle has a chip that tell the auto makers just about everything about you … but cheap, well-made EVs should be available to the average Joe, not just the wealthy.
What pisses me off the most is the Big Three have gotten billions in subsidies/corporate welfare, and instead of creating cheap EVs to fill the market they build gas-guzzling SUVs and full-sized trucks for $60k+ per.
deleted by creator
My son refuses to buy a new vehicle. He says the old ones run better and he’s able to fix them himself, which offsets the cost of maintaining any new vehicle.
I refuse as well, and will continue to refuse, at least until my 1997 and 2005 vehicles can no longer be repaired for some reason. I’d love some EV tech but the idea of driving a Big Brother vehicle that’s fender-to-fender loaded with spyware and “features” that can only be enabled via subscriptions is horrifying and dystopian. Also forget all the Big Screen distractions inside and all the self-driving antifeatures. At least 1/2 of my driving is done for pleasure and I expect to be focusing on the road and what’s happening around me.
They have to sell cars. I hear the EV F-150 is selling like shit despite all the interest online, which really disappoints me. I couldn’t be happier with my Chevy Volt (other than it’s too low to the ground for my body to comfortably climb in and out of) and many would say it’s the best PHEV - or at least was for its time. The Bolt consistently ranks very highly among EVs. I absolutely disagree that American car manufacturers are dropping the ball here. They are trying to figure out how to make and sell these cars to consumers who have made clear they want trucks and SUVs with the cargo/passenger capacity for trips.
Cost of labor is higher here, but not nearly enough to explain this price difference (and is anyone suggesting we shouldn’t pay autoworkers good wages?). Something doesn’t add up. Corners have to have been cut to create an EV half the cost of everyone else. I welcome fair competition to help drive prices down, but I’ll wait to see what happens. I’m super skeptical of any miracle solution, particularly when the verbiage about it has such an emotionally charged tone.
Did you have the chip issue in the volt a few years ago? Man that was a pain, lost mine for months waiting.
I’m currently buying ford mavericks for my fleet, and really wish they’d get off their ass and make it a plug in hybrid. We need more low to mid vehicles in the US or china will take the market even at 100% tariff markup. That’s embarrassing, but the outcome of them all pushing to “Yank tanks” for profit.
I didn’t have the chip issue, but I know it was bad and covid supply chain issues turned it into an absolute shit show for those who did. So far it has been an absolute dream. I’m just too old and have bad joints to easily get in and out. I used to commute over 200 miles a day in it, so I got every watt out of that battery every day. I still push that battery to its limits at least once a week. Anyone who thinks 30 miles is plenty is crazy - especially in northern winters where range is cut in half.
Chevy Volt … Bolt consistently ranks very highly among EVs. I absolutely disagree that American car manufacturers are dropping the ball here.
They’re not dropping the ball, they’re throwing it away. You’re giving two examples that have been our best hope for affordable EVs but are no longer made
Well, that’s a fair point. The Bolt is being replaced by an EV version of the Equinox, which I like better for the crossover size factor, but I suspect it won’t hit quite the same as the Bolt.
No replacement for the Volt, though. Which kinda sucks, though it wasn’t a cheap market car by any means. I think mine was 35k new and I didn’t spring for the fancy version.
Do you own a cell phone though? Those things can collect way more data than any car ever could.
deleted by creator
Wikipedia
doesn’t have an article in Englishbut does have one in French :
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull
Speed, max : 130 km/h
Range : 305 km with 30 kWh sodium? bat. pack,
… 405 km with 38 kWh Lithium bat. pack
Lower cost sodium ion (?) battery tech.
https://www.moniteurautomobile.be/actu-auto/nouveaux-modeles/byd-seagull-11000-et-des-batteries-sodium-ion.html
Electric motor : TZ180XSH (permanent magnet synchronous for higher efficiency)
Kerb weight : 1,160–1,240 kgYes it does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull
Might be a connectivity issue on your end (or the mobile link playing up).
Thanks, I put a strike through over the
offendingpart.
Cars which won’t pass inspection in the US and are only sold in China are no threat to anything.
and are only sold in China are no threat to anything.
The export model, the Dolphin Mini, is expected in Europe in 2025.
When I post a comment that mentions Europe I keep that in mind.
Are you suggesting that there is a material difference of minimal testing standard between the EU and the USA?
Capital interests might have something to say about it in the US. No way they’re letting the government allow those in.
deleted by creator
They still have regulations and certain standards need to be met. I think it’s set by the NHTSA.
Unless they’re over 25 years old. But then there’s state laws for that too. I just want my kei truck.
The seagull ev being discussed is not 25 years old.
Any new vehicle sold in the US needs to pass NHTSA standards. We’re not talking about emissions testing.
deleted by creator
I would say no at the prices they’re selling for in China. The crackdown is due to the massive subsidies being pumped into these manufacturers by the Chinese government which would make it impossible for any other manufacturer to compete with them since they’re selling them below cost.
Where as the States with no inspection are impoverished shit holes, I stand by my, ‘no threat’.
deleted by creator
Where as the States with no inspection are impoverished shit holes, I stand by my, ‘no threat’.
You don’t live in reality.
That would include Michigan, which is where they design a lot of US domestic cars.
That’s false. The same car is sold in Mexico & Brazil and probably other countries as well
Two other countries with extremely lax safety standards.
This may surprise you but US manufacturers count on a lot of income from selling outside the US. They’re all global conglomerates. Even looking through your roses colored glasses, do you really think legacy manufacturers will do well when they lose all of their global sales?
It’s easy to build a cheap car when you ignore the human rights of your workers and the environmental damage of your production process.
Or our businesses don’t want this type of competition? An affordable and reliable sub 10k EV? This would hurt our businesses and billionaire class, no?
If I needed a new car, and had a 10k EV as an option, it’d be my first choice to look into.
Por que no los dos, though.
Our businesses can’t compete because we don’t want poison in our air/water, cars made with child labor, or factories that regularly maim or kill employees.
Is that why all the manufacturing of every industry (including most of the parts for the cars assembled in USA) was sent from America to China?
It’s okay when we do it because our factories at least looks clean and modern despite all that shit happening anyway.
… are you from the USA?
Lol western nations dint give a fuck about that. They just externalized the environmental costs to China and other poor nations until now and then sold the end result to their customers. The only problem is that that US doesn’t own the company.
Western auto workers weren’t and aren’t anywhere near ethical with their workers. Also Western automakers do have plenty of wiggle room, but they’re not charities.
Exactly!
Ahh yes, when a product advertises that it is “well built” that is a massive red flag.
It was an American company doing a teardown of the vehicle that said it was well built.
I don’t want a Chinese car but at the same time if American automakers are going to continue refusing to make affordable electric cars and only give massive SUVs and trucks as our gas options then it seems like that’s pretty much the choice we’ll be left with.
Edit: if this frightens the Biden administration then they need to find a way to put pressure on American manufacturers to make some decent vehicles.
I’m really not a fan of China, but I’m inclined to agree. We need smaller, more affordable vehicles. SUVs are antiquated, and trucks are largely decorative for most of the population. We need smaller, lighter vehicles. Though we also should be investing much more into mass transit rather than (largely redundant) highways and roads anyways, as it’s a huge waste of taxpayer money. Keep the key highways, build rail to reduce reliance on shit we shouldn’t really be rebuilding anyways. A lot of highways are going to be hitting the end of their useful lives soon, anyways, and require rebuilds.
