Places like gay bars and cafes were made with the explicit purpose of creating a safe space for LGBTQ+ folk. We HAD to create safe spaces because so many straight people want to inflict harm on us or wish that we were exterminated. Being around you means we cannot be ourselves fully because we will always hesitate. We will always wonder “Are you one of the good ones?” We spend our lives tiptoeing around straight people wondering if we can be ourselves or if we have to hide it to protect us from the psychotic amount of negativity and hatred that we have to deal with for merely existing.
I don’t care if you’re one of the good ones or not. By simply being there you are changing the entire makeup of an LGBTQ+ space. You are adding in fear, apprehension and confusion into a place that was never supposed to have it. Moreover, you’re treating us like a novelty. Like we made this place for you to feel safe in. You are ignoring us and forcing us out of our own spaces. There are multiple “gay bars” that I have been to that no longer have predominately gay clientele and have started leaning towards advertising for straight people. Why? Because so many people showed up to “feel safe” that it pushed every single one of us out.
It isn’t for you. You do not belong there. Stop feeling and acting so entitled to a place that has nothing to do with you and that was made with the explicit purpose to be free from you. Give us back our spaces that we made for us and stop whining when we dare to say that.
Your feelings are not more important than our identity, safety and peace of mind.
Edit: Look at all the entitled straight people. Downvote me all you want. You are a genuinely shitty person if you go to a place that was made specifically to be free from you. You’re even worse if you’re trying to pretend you are anything but. At that point you’re lying to yourselves and us.
Maybe you should listen to the people part of that group though instead of feeling like you have the right to enter a space not designed for you, not for you and then turning us into a commodity for your own personal safety.
You piece of utter human garbage.
Yes, you’ve made your opinions on the matter quite clear. Despite the homophobic discrimination I’ve faced myself, I personally can’t agree with this sentiment at all because I hate the idea of not being able to go with my friends to a fun hangout spot just because some militant prick says some of them are the “wrong” kind of person. The orientation or gender of the people around me doesn’t by itself inhibit me from being who I am, and that doesn’t sound healthy. On the subject, it’s probably not healthy to assume that the downvotes are all from “entitled straights”. Wouldn’t want to slip into a No True Scotsman fallacy now, would we?
Despite my own feelings, I would still like to hear from other people in the community on the matter. I’ve lived in very tolerant places most of my life, and I’m not familiar with the scene in a place like Kentucky or North Carolina or what have you.
Then it is like I said. You are actively putting your own feelings above the group and ignoring the core purpose of it.
For the record, I’m from Toronto. So, I am in a very tolerant place. The problem is that it’s too fucking tolerant. We’ve been pushed out of our places. Church/Wellesley used to be the bustling the center of gay town and it’s been utterly gentrified by straight people who felt more and more comfortable in all of the gay bars and all of the spaces and starting turning the entire area into something homogenous. It fragmented the community and resulted in a second gay area starting up. Why? Because we got pushed out of our space with tolerance. We couldn’t be ourselves anymore. We couldn’t hit on someone randomly in the bar because they might be straight. Suddenly the entire atmosphere drastically shifted from a relaxed vibe for us to a minefield. Slowly turned into just another straight bar. We had to go back to figuring out whether or not someone was straight first, something that is insanely exhausting. So we had to go and make yet another space that was just for us where that wouldn’t happen and we could just be ourselves. No stressing over that. No second guessing whether or not they were gay. Having an assurance of it and being free.
And you’re right. The downvotes aren’t just entitled straights. It’s also entitled LGBTQ+ folk and LGBTQ+ folk who are completely ignorant of their own history and community.
We’re currently on step 3.
And if you hit on someone who is not into you, a polite refusal should not be problematic regardless of the reason. There is no reason these spaces cannot be safe, as well as including allies. If you want to presuppose violent intent based on orientation, that’s your issue, not anyone else’s.
Me: The problem is that when straight people are in a gay bar we have to second guess whether or not they’re straight which defeats the entire purpose of a gay bar which is to be assured that someone is gay.
You: Yeah but a refusal shouldn’t be a problem.
The refusal isn’t the problem. The problem is that it isn’t for you. Why is it that women are allowed to have women only gyms but we can’t have a bar.
But lets take your opinion seriously for a fraction of a second and adopt it. Does it have a limit and if so where is it? Gay bars are fine but what about LGBTQ+ shelters and group homes? I mean, we’re just presupposing violent intent based on orientation, right? So clearly that isn’t a thing anymore. We can’t have those spaces. “But that’s ridiculous, of course we need those spaces” would completely undermine your entire argument and that one can pressuppose violent intent based on orientation which is something our community actively does because we’re actively persecuted. But lets handwave away that argument and move on to something else. Male only bathhouses. Are they allowed to keep existing? Or are they forced to become co-ed to cater to all sexual orientations?
Things are not black and white like you’re trying to pretend they are. It’s very, very grey and that line of ‘presupposing violent intent based on orientation’ is frankly ridiculous.
I’m done with engaging with you. You haven’t offered a single rebuttal that had any sense at all. You’re just being dismissive and doing exactly what I said. Being wildly entitled by putting your own personal feelings above everyone else and rejecting any alternative other than your own narrative. So much so that you are not even bothering to engage with half of what I say because you don’t have an answer. You just don’t care about anyone other than yourself.
You’re the most selfish and entitled person in this thread, assuming that you alone get to decide what the “purpose” of these spaces are. Many in the community disagree with you, as is evident in this thread, but you presume you speak for all? Not everybody hates “the straights” the way that you obviously do.
The only reason I can think of that you would want assurance someone is gay when you hit on them is that you might believe you could reasonably expect violence from hitting on a straight person. Did I assume that’s why, since it’s the only reason I could think of and you have already called out violence as one of the underpinning reasons you hold this opinion? Yes, I did.
I’m sorry you can’t hear how you sound. Therapy will help, if you find the right therapist. Good luck.