Sounds like trump doesn’t want veterans to vote
Veteran here. Donald Trump fucking hates us.
If you want to ‘support the troops’, vote blue.
Anyone who votes Republican hates us.
Hi, I have a BiL in the Army (≈10yrs) who is an extremely confused libertarian who loves Trump and would rather crazy people be allowed to freely have guns than ensure his 5yo survives elementary school.
This is a genuine question, but do you have any tips for communicating with him? Maybe help him at least give some real thought to some of his positions?
The Trump-loving libertarians are a weird batch. Typically the trumpanzees I deal with are GOP, and my strategy is to actually talk up the LP in an attempt to use Chase Oliver as more benign trash can to drop would-be Trump votes into.
For actual libertarians who are already planning on voting Oliver, I point out that a fascist victory would be fatally damaging to every party except the fascists - 3rds are fucked right along with everyone else. Their best strategy is to nudge the current system into a model more conducive to a 3rd party victory, specifically via ranked choice voting so people can feel safe voting for a 3rd without worrying about the spoiler effect. To do that, they need to vote blue to keep the fascists out of power, as a vote for more time to refine their party of preference and preserve a political model that could lead to that party’s victory.
Trump LPers are harder to speak to, to the point of being a lost cause in most cases, but I can understand wanting to give a little extra to help out a family member. Start digging into policy questions - less who he wants to win, and more what he wants to accomplish. Assess those goals, and consider if someone other than Trump would be better to achieve them.
This debate technique is called “steelmanning” and requires putting yourself in the other side’s shoes, and building their side up in a way that’s compatible with yours, vs the usual talking points nowadays, which are usually just strawman bullshit that will never get anything done.
Good luck!
Good ideas! I’ll keep some of those in mind. He’s not stupid, just incredibly naive, and it doesn’t help that he lives in the big shadow of his special forces older brother and thinks (maybe subconsciously) he has to prove himself equal.
Because of his naivete, he listens to what the right wing news orgs say as gospel, possibly because he has a weak epistemic foundation. If I can manage to push through some of that bullshit, it might give him some space to form his own opinions.
I don’t really want to change him, per se, but it worries me that he’s so thoughtless; if I can help him learn how to put a little more thought into his choices and actions and see that life doesn’t exist in black and white terms, I’ll call that a success.
Vet here, also former libertarian, current father.
People smell bullshit, so ask genuine questions. If you have an agenda it wont work.
Ask about what kind of role he sees for government, and ask about situations you find troubling and what he things the solution is.
Ask about specific people you may know who are too underprivileged, young, old, infirm to be self sufficient and bootstrap themselves.
Generally give real thought to your opinions and ask him about his. You really can’t change people by wanting to do it, you have to want to understand them first and then enter into dialogue.
Good advice. Thanks! I will try reframing some of my questions a little better.
Honestly, it will be tough with him. He’s incredibly naive and not terribly introspective, but if I can find those points of agreement, perhaps he’ll be a little less defensive on the outset. Doesn’t help that my sister and the rest of the family are all liberal and leftward, so he’s an island.
Sounds like something someone who did get captured would say.
This is obviously part of a much broader, Republican-led nationwide effort to restrict and suppress voting, disenfranchise Americans, sow distrust, and grant Republicans more control over our election system, all in the name of “election integrity.”
By leveraging Trump’s “big lie” and the stream of election fraud propaganda, conspiracies, and misinformation that followed to promote unnecessary solutions to fabricated problems. They’ve convinced millions of disgruntled supporters that Democrats have compromised our election system.
This is the claim now: undocumented immigrants are voting, and that Democrats, particularly Biden, are encouraging it, even though some of these places are VA centers.
There’s a narrative in conservative circles that immigrants are being pushed to register to vote when they sign up for any benefits. Trump’s allies allege this is happening.
The reality is, anyone applying for benefits is asked if they want to register to vote. However, if you are not a citizen, you cannot use that application to register, because you have to prove U.S. citizenship.
It’s election fraud, interference, and subversion to combat conspiracies of election fraud… period.
There’s a pattern where Republicans jump to conclusions about a stolen election, and when facts contradict these conclusions, they create conspiracies and rationalizations to double down. This is the conservative modus operandi.
Facts don’t matter to them; their prejudices and delusions guide their thinking. In their minds, anything is justified because they believe the election was stolen. They won’t be convinced otherwise, so it’s up to Republicans, who have been pandering to these grievances, to act. Unfortunately, this action often results in widespread voter suppression under the guise of protecting elections from fabricated threats.
Aaand moreover, propaganda and rhetoric from Trump and prominent Republicans who have embraced the stolen election conspiracy are empowering right-wing zealots to intimidate voters at polling places. Some even consider becoming election or poll workers to “stop the steal.”
This is happening nationwide, particularly in densely populated, Democrat-leaning areas.
This effort gained momentum after the election and has continued, with few Republicans or conservatives acknowledging it. Most believe that these Trump loyalists are justified in passing sweeping “election integrity” laws that undermine, rather than uphold, the integrity of our elections.
History will compare this era in American politics to the years before Nazi Germany.
The one thing I disagree with is the generalization of Republicans “believing” what they say. Numerous times, they’ve let the veil slip and showed they don’t believe the shit they’re saying: they have very specific goals and fill in the logic or “research” later.
It’s like the term “globalists.” Some very naive people repeat conspiracies thinking that there’s some secret cabal of globalists, but most people know that anyone talking about “globalists” means “Jews.”
“Election fraud” isn’t something they actually believe; they know the election wasn’t stolen. “Election fraud” is a hurdle or stumbling block meant to trap Democrats into trying to reason with someone who isn’t being reasonable. It’s an opportunity to troll people. But most importantly, it’s an empty set of words used as a shield behind which they can commit actual election fraud.
Sure some people actually believe the election was stolen, but they’re only going to listen to their select group of talking heads. We need to quit giving politicians and grifters the benefit of the doubt and call them out for lying, obfuscating, conspiring, and trying to instill fascism. There need to be repercussions for disenfranchising the people for power and profits under the guise of “No u.”
It’s like the term “globalists.” Some very naive people repeat conspiracies thinking that there’s some secret cabal of globalists, but most people know that anyone talking about “globalists” means “Jews.”
And just to be clear, there isn’t a secret cabal of those, either!
That’s one of the really insidious things about their tactics: their lies are like ogres, with layers. It makes it such a huge chore to debunk each and every aspect that some of them slip through the cracks and go unrefuted. Then they point to those in order to shore up the rest of the shit they’re spewing!
Oh geeze, I didn’t even get around to cleaning that up… I’m a bad globalist…
“Election fraud” isn’t something they actually believe; they know the election wasn’t stolen. “Election fraud” is a hurdle or stumbling block meant to trap Democrats into trying to reason with someone who isn’t being reasonable. It’s an opportunity to troll people. But most importantly, it’s an empty set of words used as a shield behind which they can commit actual election fraud.
This line of thinking makes me realize that a really good tool for dialogue with these fence-sitters, if we may call them that, would be to reasonably ask them “how has this belief worked out for you?”, in response to some usual garbage conspiracy theory projection.
And Americans are still wondering what motivation the nearly assassin had. Mhhhhm
Honestly no one is wondering.
Law enforcement is looking for some one to blame. Media conglomerates are looking to sell ads.
Trump brought that on himself.
Damn right he did. He told his people during the last cycle that if you don’t like what a candidate might do if elected, you should shoot them. He said this, regarding Hillary Clinton:
“If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the second amendment people, maybe there is, I don’t know.”
Aaand moreover, propaganda and rhetoric from Trump and prominent Republicans who have embraced the stolen election conspiracy are empowering right-wing zealots to intimidate voters at polling places. Some even consider becoming election or poll workers to “stop the steal.”
This is actually what I’m most worried about going into this election, because of how easy it would be, how few people are needed to do it, and how few resources are necessary to pull it off.
Throw a couple of “poll watchers” into majority-minority districts to intimidate voters. Maybe call in a bomb threat or two to a couple of key polling places in swing states. Or just one or two lone wolves committing acts of violence.
Remember, they don’t need to actually win the popular vote, and winning the popular vote by millions of people doesn’t matter. They only need to skew a few thousand votes in key swing states. An attack, or even just the threat of an attack, could easily be enough to swing the state if not the entire election. You don’t need some elaborate international conspiracy that comes straight out of a James Bond movie. All you need is one idiot calling in a bomb threat, “poll watching”, or outright committing a mass shooting and you could do just as much damage with no significant resources spent and no way for law enforcement to stop you before it’s too late.
I believe this is about making as much of the election go through the corrupt court system as possible. They want this election decided by judges.
They tried to get judges to decide the last one
The only judge that should be involved in this election is Judge Dredd.
There is no reason you should be against this at all unless you’re evil.
Sadly that’s true for a lot of things republicans are against. Fucking evil bastards.
I’m honestly confused what benefit this gives to evil people, I understand why closing them would be a bad thing, I just don’t see what he would get out of it.
If they carry out voter suppression tactics in an area then it’s almost certainly an area they’ve determined to be advantageous to Democrats.
“undermines the integrity of elections by increasing the opportunity for individuals to register to vote even though they are ineligible to do so.”
The quote is false on it’s face - they already know that ineligible registrants won’t get processed or be on the roll to vote. They want to keep disengaged voters disengaged - nothing else, here except for maybe the dog whistle of “illegal immigrant voters!”
If anything, this gives me hope still in 2024 that the GOP are STILL trying to suppress voter turnout because they know they will lose the popular vote because their policies are fascist garbage and so are their politicians.
It’s because there are articles exposing P2025 for eliminating the VA and the VA compensation program. This effectively makes millions of veterans homeless, or have drastic reduction in quality of life due to money being cut.
For the first time in a long time, it looks like the veteran vote might not go for GOP, and (surprise Pikachu) the GOP is trying to eliminate the entire voting block.
Making voting accessible? HOW DARE YOU!
Trump’s lawsuit also claims that the VA and SBA violated the registration act and are “undermining confidence in the integrity of the electoral process and discouraging participation in the democratic process, which will harm the electoral prospects of Republican candidates.”
So. Much. Projection.
which will harm the electoral prospects of Republican candidates.”
Burying the lede. They only care because Republicans reliably lose when voter turnout increases.
To be frank, this is the best takeaway from the article.
They said the quiet part out loud… again.
edit: spelling
This is the key, and it really is just that simple.
Their hateful and ignorant ideals simply don’t have enough support to win with any significant voter turnout.
They therefore have exactly two options - to modify their positions to appeal to more people, or to hold to their positions and try to manipulate and corrupt the system so that they can win in spite of the fact that a clear majority rightly find them to be noxious. And they’ve blatantly chosen the latter.
Stand for our troops but don’t let them register to vote. Fantastic patriotism™️
“Stand for our troops. It’s easier to kick their legs out from under them when you’re standing”
Hooah
It’s telling that people voting is a threat to him, why? Do you not think you can win if people are allowed to vote?
Don’t forget he also said if minorities vote, Republicans will never win another election!
If just 5% more of the registered voters in TX in 2016 had voted for Hillary, she would have won. Voter turnout is a dangerous thing to both Trump and Cruz, as they’re both up for election this year.
Ah yes the Zodiac Killer
is getting SCrOTUS to overturn the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 part of ‘the plan’?
VA announces state partnerships to provide voter registration assistance to Veterans, press release, dated 20 Sep 2022.
Executive Order on Promoting Access to Voting, President Biden, dated 7 Mar 2021.
Let’s do the same with churches now.
Hopefully the dumbfucks suit will be thrown out for frivolity
Lack of standing. He is not a citizen of Michigan…
Also, there’s that whole “states get to determine the manner and means by which they hold an election.” If Conservatives want states like Texas and Florida to have the power to decide to “legally” only have one voting location in the entire state, they can’t (yet) also go, “Except Michigan doesn’t get that power.”
He shouldnt be a citizen of the entire planet actually but that hasnt stopped him from laying claim to various pieces of the nation
Frivolity makes absolute sense to describe the suit as frivolous, but just makes it sound a bit too lackadaisical for my liking.
How about “vexatious litigation”?
Yeah but dumpfs penchant for animositous attacks does become laughable with its frequrncy
Wonder why hes signaling out Whitmer after the FBI was warning people about pro trump revenge attacks. Bet there’s no other reason than the voting thing though /s
Trump is the master of the dog whistle. He knows how to say the quiet things out loud but under the radar.
It’s not under the radar. He says it right out in the open. He always, always accuses Democrats of doing whatever thing he’s planning to do next, so when he does it and the Democrats call him out on it, it appears to be petty revenge to the general public.
Assuming you weren’t an only child, remember when you were a kid fighting with your siblings? When you ran to mom. who always won? Whoever got there first. Whoever got their second gets to hear “Leave your brother alone and knock it off”. Being the first to run to mom and dad to settle dispultes was a huge advantage, sometimes leading to whoever got there second being punished even if whoever got there first was the antagonist.
Trump has just shown that this strategy works. As long as you accuse them of doing it first, you significantly soften the blow when they accuse you of doing the same thing, because the accusations appear to be less genuine and more retaliatory.
Okay so there’s no real argument about why the RNC, DJT, and the MRP are bringing this lawsuit. It’s politically motivated and they are dicks trying to prevent people from voting.
With that said my lay reading of the Lawsuit (22 pages, pdf warning) leads me to believe that the lawsuit has merit; meaning that they may be correct that neither the Governor nor the Secretary of State have the unilateral authority to add or remove VRAs.
So yeah their motivation for the lawsuit is shitty but this is “Rule of Law” type stuff. We aren’t happy when Republican Governor’s pull this shit and we shouldn’t be giving Democrat Governor’s a free pass either.
Let’s apply the same standard, then.
Let it ride until after the election, and then apologize and correct the mistake.
Do you mean a half-assed non-apology and then say “Oh well, it’s done now”?
Okay so there’s no real argument about why the RNC, DJT, and the MRP are bringing this lawsuit. It’s politically motivated and they are dicks trying to prevent people from voting.
Honestly, I disagree. I think this comment rings true, that their motive is even more ulterior than just stopping veterans from registering to vote:
I believe this is about making as much of the election go through the corrupt court system as possible. They want this election decided by judges.
In other words, they don’t just want people not to vote; they want the votes of people who do manage it to also not matter by manufacturing excuses for Heritage Foundation judges to throw them out wholesale.
“trump takes [X action]”
In these headlines, unless the [X action] part is farts or lies, he didn’t do it. The Heritage Foundation did. He’s an empty, inept coward and an erratic puppet.
If they loose 2024, they will simply rebrand to Project 2029
Yeah… It’s like definitely up there among the reasons I’m so sick of everything… This version of groundhog day really sucks.
I’d say this case has no standing, but in recent years that hasn’t really mattered much. Just goes to show it’s all rules for thee not me in the Republican party.
That was my first thought, does he have standing? In what way was trump harmed by the VA Medical Centers registering voters? Did they only register dems? The game is all about making all the noise you can, distract, deflect.
