Edit2: It’s a subjective perception I’m talking about. Are you offended? Why?

What’s the matter, why can’t men deal with me being sensitive and emotional? Is it because they struggle with me reminding them of having, too, emotions?

Edit: Do men think I’m weak when I show emotions? If so, why?? Why do women see it as a sign of strength when men are vulnerable, but men don’t seem to get it? Are they/are we dumb??

  • SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz
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    10 months ago

    Men are often socialized to believe that showing emotion is reserved for children, women, and the weak. They are often taught that emotions are in direct opposition to “strength” and “manliness”.

    Unfortunately, if men show emotion, they are often criticized and made fun of (often by other men), calling their masculinity into question. As if having emotions make you weak or less of a man.

    Emotions are not a “weak” trait. Emotions are a human trait.

    Men need to work hard to be supportive and accepting of other men showing emotion. De- stigmatize emotional men. Stop showing sensitive men or men who struggle or cry as “weak” or worthy of mockery. This is such an antiquated view and needs to be abolished.

    Support your bros. Become comfortable with emotional expression. This will help struggling men everywhere, I guarantee it.

  • huginn@feddit.it
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    10 months ago

    This is what is commonly referred to as “toxic masculinity”. That’s the crux of what they’re talking about. It’s not just that men are taught to be dangerous to those around them, it’s that we’re also taught to be hard and lonely Islands that seek no support.

    It’s no way to live and it crushes you over time.

    • Seudo@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      As opposed to masculinity. Look at Gilgamesh, Achelies, even the godfather of stoicism Marcus Arilius. Historically peak alpha males never muffled their emotions.

    • heird@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      Not quite, I have a group of male friends who are very comfortable with being emotional with each other and I still prefer opening to women because they are much more concerned and able to deal with it, lot of men still don’t know what to do with it.

      • huginn@feddit.it
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        10 months ago

        You’re still describing the effects of toxic masculinity, just the 2nd order effects rather than the first.

        Why do you think a lot of men don’t know what to do with it? Why do you think a lot of men aren’t concerned?

        It’s not some innate aspect of being a woman: it’s a suppressed aspect of being a human that society has pressed out of men.

        • heird@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          They aren’t as used to talk about emotions and relationships so it’s easier to go with someone that is.

          It’s no assumptions just facts

            • heird@lemmy.ml
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              10 months ago

              I mean sure but if you want to look more in depth it’s not just toxic masculinity, there’s also toxic femininity involved most men have been hurt by their previous partner who they opened up to and their partner then used it against them or even ridiculed them in front of an audience. Or women around them mocked them for being emotional and crying

              • Tenniswaffles@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                9 months ago

                What you’re describing is still toxic masculinity and has absolutely nothing to do with toxic femininity. Men that have been hurt by their previous partners or ridiculed for being emotional, is toxic masculinity. This is because men are discouraged from expressing their emotions or seeking support, reinforcing the harmful stereotype that vulnerability is a sign of weakness. Men get hurt by women doing this because of the toxic view many men and women carry about masculinity and male gender roles.

                Toxic femininity on the other hand, is a societal expectation placed on women to conform to traditional gender roles and stereotypes, like being passive, nurturing, and submissive.

                • heird@lemmy.ml
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                  9 months ago

                  Nope

                  Examples of Toxic Femininity

                  To identify toxic femininity, you need to know what to look out for to ensure they are not falling victim to toxic femininity guise as friendship or niceness by some women. The telltale signs include:

                  Slut-shaming and body-shaming – women who slut-shame or body shame others are toxic Talking over other people and belittling others, especially fellow women Making fun of another female to get the attention of a man. Shaming men for being too soft or having feminine traits that do not live up to societal expectations of what a man is. Passive aggression behavior can include patronizing behavior, fake niceties, and smiley faces after a harsh text. Sabotaging and backstabbing behavior like lying for their benefit, offering misleading advice, manipulating situations, and mocking others for their decisions. Resentment, jealousy, and bitterness towards others, especially fellow women, for their popularity, looks, and achievements Negative competitiveness with other women through dominance or sexuality

  • lurker2718@lemmings.world
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    10 months ago

    I don’t know your exact experiences, but I had a similar feeling in the past. However, recently I noticed it was a lot of how i behaved to them. I started speaking more openly with my male friends and noticed, they also value my emotions. The main difference was, that my friendships with women started on an emotional level making it a lot easier to open up for me. With my male friends, I needed to just say how i feel, which i have not dared for a long time. My own stereotypes probably played a larger role than the gender of the people involved.

    However as others have said, if they do not take you seriously when you open up, they are bad friends. (Edit: Bad friends is a bit harsh, more like friends for having fun together, not to rely on. This is also nice even if it can be hard to accept)

    • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      Yep. And it’s really liberating once you become comfortable plainly sharing your emotions about things with other men. I didn’t even realize I was keeping things in until I stopped keeping things in. I think it’s helped my relationship with my wife too, just by building better habits around isolating and speaking my emotional reaction to things.

    • UndulyUnruly@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Then you run into a full-blown narcissist and they will mistake your openness for weakness and start to weaponise it against you. Ask me how I know this.

  • morphballganon@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Sounds like you hang out with childish “men” (boys) and emotionally intelligent women.

    There have been plenty of times in my life where showing emotions to women was the wrong move. On the other hand, the friend of mine that I consider the most emotionally mature is a man.

  • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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    10 months ago

    Man a lot of people are chalking this up to just the individuals being assholes, but there’s absolutely a societal expectation to men being stoic, and that’s hard to break for a lot of people, even with their closest friends. Men are taught to be driven, active, leaders. It’s what we’ve been conditioned to by society for thousands of years. There’s a growing shift towards men embracing what can be seen as “femininity” in aspects of life, particularly emotionally, but speaking from experience here, it’s still hard to open up to my guy friends. And I have good guy friends who absolutely would listen and support me. Hell, they have.

    Toxic masculinity has been brought up here, and kinda shot down, but if you dig deep, that’s what a lot of it is. Note that doesn’t make these people BAD PEOPLE, they’re as much victims of it as you are. There’s no correlation between ‘strength’ and showing emotion. No one, man or woman, is going to look at someone going through it and say ‘ah they she’d a tear! Weakling!’ Hell, if anything, it takes a lot of strength to be emotionally honest. But that feeling is present as a low-level background noise everywhere. Men don’t cry. Get over it you’re a man. She dumped you? She wasn’t that good anyway bro. Nah man, that shit HURTS. This is what toxic masculinity is. Not toxic MEN but toxic STANDARDS, which are perpetuated by both sides.

  • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Obligatory “nOt ALl MeN”

    I’m a dude and I’m fine with my guy friends showing emotion. Very few do. We’re socially taught it’s weird, but it’s not.

    Get yourself a guy friend you can hug.

    • TheLemming@feddit.deOP
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      10 months ago

      Yeah … you’re right 🙈

      problem is though

      Past sexual abuse makes it physically icky (I’m straight!!)

  • russjr08@outpost.zeuslink.net
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    10 months ago

    In my experience, this isn’t a gendered distinction - but rather just down to the individual person.

    Some of my closest friends that are both men and women alike are friends I consider “letting my guard down” around. The same applies in the opposite direction, where I have friends (but generally more on the distant friend / acquaintance side) men and women alike that I have to be a bit more guarded around.

    And while I can’t comment on this specifically because I of course don’t know you and as such have no frame of reference, from what I’ve experienced in the past and seen others go through, is that a lot of times it’s how you bring it up. If it seems more forceful, it’s going to have a higher chance to not land well with people (of any gender).

    Edit: Another thing worthwhile to note, is that people have different ways of expressing emotional acceptance. For example, my grandfather would never turn me, or anyone away for expressing their emotions. But, he’s more of a silent listener, and doesn’t usually comment on it - but I know that he is still accepting of my emotions the few times that I bring it up. It’s very similar to the concept of love languages, if you’ve ever heard that. It’s very possible that the men in your life are more the silent listener type.

  • Not_Alec_Baldwin@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Obviously, in any discussion about groups as diverse as men/women, it’s important to recognize that these are sweeping generalizations and that individuals can vary wildly.

    It’s not being “sensitive” or “emotional” that most dudes have trouble with.

    Most women probably don’t consider it a sign of strength, either. Not the sensitivity or emotionality.

    In my experience, most men are focused on something that is happening. A sport or activity, a task, whatever. Your sharing is most likely out of rapport and just isn’t how they want to interact.

    I have close male friendships that are very emotionally open, and others where it just doesn’t feel right.

    In my experience, women are different. Male/female relationships are already complicated and getting into preferences and other dynamics is pointless. It could be anything.

    Assuming you’re attractive/confident/wealthy/etc, there would be many women who would comfort you just to keep you in their orbit.

    Assuming you aren’t, there are many women who would comfort you out of a sense of maternal care and empathy.

    Assuming you’re usually friendly, funny, safe, etc, women broadly seem to be kinder and more interested in interacting in that emotional space.

    Does any of it matter? Probably not. Before insulting all men you know, it might be better to consider that you might just not like to have typical male friends. Just because people don’t like doing what you do, it doesn’t make them dumb.

  • HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    A lot of my male relationships, we bond while we do things. My female relationships we can just hang out. Don’t know why that is.

  • 🇰 🔵 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.net
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    10 months ago

    Those men have issues of their own. We’re often raised to be stoic. Many men are instilled with this idea that crying makes you weak, and that men aren’t supposed to be weak from a young age. It makes many of us men absolute pieces of shit, IMO. It’s the very foundation of toxic masculinity.

    • Not_Alec_Baldwin@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Eh, I hate the phrase toxic masculinity.

      Some people are assholes. Men are assholes, and women are assholes. Don’t blame it on their gender.

      • Nashua@programming.dev
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        10 months ago

        It’s not the gender being referred to as toxic, rather the societal expectation for men to behave a certain way - tougher, harder, to not show weakness through expressing emotion. Toxic masculinity can come from people of any gender.

        • OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          Not to mention, toxic masculinity hurts men just as much as it hurts the people around them.

          Men are victims of patriarchy too.

          I hate that terms like toxic masculinity have been poisoned by such frequent misuse.

      • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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        10 months ago

        “toxic masculinity” isn’t anything to do with a single person. It’s the aspects of us, as a gender-based society, that we see as “masculine” but are really just… toxic. Toxic masculinity is telling your kids to have a stiff upper lip. Toxic masculinity is shoving those emotions down in the ‘man place’ because no one cares but you, bro. Society ain’t got time for a man that can’t stand.

        Doing these things, experiencing these things, and being shaped by them doesn’t mean someone themselves is toxic, but that they’ve gotten the TOXIC parts of masculinity mixed up with real masculinity.

        There’s toxic femininity, too. Off the top of my head, the culture around appearance is definitely an example. Yes, a lot of that was started, and still gets perpetuated, by men, but there’s a lot of women feeding into that as well. Masculinity just tends to be overpowering, in many ways, and so toxic masculinity is easier to see and be pissed at than toxic femininity.

  • creaturentity@literature.cafe
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    10 months ago

    Yes, I think so. It’s been my experience that when you show a vulnerability or do something that causes people to confront a hidden little part of themselves, people who can’t deal with their repressed emotions around that thing tend to get resentful and sometimes react in really immature ways. Internally, they might think things like “You’re CRYING? But I don’t feel like I get to cry! I never get a chance to show my emotions! Why should YOU?” And then externally, what comes out of their mouth is wild shit like “pull yourself together” or “man up”. This also happens with other modes of self expression but I think in terms of emotion and masculinity it is particularly awful. Women are more likely to have experienced the harmful effects of strict gender roles, and generally want to make sure men feel supported in the face of that, because it (patriarchy) hurts us all.

    Women are also often socialized to know how to react and how to help when people get upset, which can lead to some bleakly unfair family situations, but in contrast to men who might not have that skill set or that lifetime of practice with those types of social situations, they’re going to respond very differently. It is absolutely a skill to be able to cope with others’ feelings, and that skill is not taught to children evenly.

  • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    I think one take might be that the cause might be based out of a fear of being perceived as being gay. I mean you have generations of men who faced everything from hanging, to chemical castration to prison sentences for being gay. Policing expression of things like any sign of physical signs of affection or “womanly” displays of emotional connection put men in physical danger. That generational trauma of emotional amputation for preservation of life doesn’t go away in a day.

    Internally a lot of guys still have their guards up because that was the model of behaviour their fathers and male community members have because their Dads were like that so even if the underlying cause isn’t known the behaviour seems more “normal”. It’s what the people you saw as grown ups did and what they trained you to emulate to be like them. Under those circumstances everything else becomes the deviation because it feels counter to what you were taught or are mirroring. Fighting that feeling of oddness requires an act of conscious will. A lot of people still look at being gay or femme is a failure state. A weakness of moral character… because it is a rejection of internalized homophobia and misogyny and rejecting the notion that these things are deviant is seen as an endorsement. Compulsory straightness was and is a pretty facist system and all facist systems require a “failure state” to demonize. You don’t want to be the target of violence so you enact the violence asked of you to prove you aren’t one of the failures.

    These systems self perpetuate by default.