Apparently those Mussolini style of speeches and the other 50 or so political suicides did not really matter as much as you would think. No matter the outcome this being this close I think spells the end of the USA as a rational power.
They’re not to blame. They’ve been convinced by a powerful, wealthy propaganda machine that their identity is more important than their planet, their children’s futures, or their own basic human rights. They were scared, tired, desperate, and when the machine came for them and it felt so good they bought it without checking the receipt. They’ve been tricked into giving away their futures and they are going to suffer for it. They’re stupid, but they’re not evil.
Your logic completely nullifies human capacity for agency and thus makes no sense whatsoever. Conditioning is important but it does not negate responsibility. Not yet anyway…
If my argument nullified the capacity for agency then propaganda could not exist.
I am saying that propaganda was used to make people vote for Trump. Without that propaganda, they may have voted in their own interests, like protecting bodily autonomy and basic human rights.
Propaganda is the thing that swayed them.
Some people are defenseless to it. They never stood a chance against the billion-dollar machine built specifically to win their vote. I feel sorry for them because they were tricked into giving away their futures.
I absolutely agree that propaganda and misleading information in general has a significant impact and most people don’t have the neccessary literacy skills to navigate conteporary information environments. And to be fair - they’re not easy to navigate. However, I do not agree that “they [people] are not to blame” in that ultimately adults must take responsibility (and blame) for their own actions and words, even if they are victims of disinformation or other types of misleading content. Because to argue the opposite would basically take away any responsibility from wrongdoing (intentional or otherwise) and would also mean that justice systems based on rule of law are meaningless and unnessary. Which is obviously not true.
We can’t have a stable system of governance where nobody can be blamed because everyone is some manner of stupid, ignorant, misled, uneducated about something, etc. Such a system simply wouldn’t be able to work in practice for the reasons I mention above.
Mind you, this doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t study or aknowledge the power that conditioning and misleading information have on collective political perceptions, and try to counter that as far as possible. But that is very different from saying “they are not to blame” and absolving people of their decisions and actions. It is a catch-22 but that is what the human condition ultimately is.
Some of them, yes. I have family that fit your description, but I also have family filled with anger and spite. The ones who hold hate I can and will blame for it.
Less than 50% of them
Apparently those Mussolini style of speeches and the other 50 or so political suicides did not really matter as much as you would think. No matter the outcome this being this close I think spells the end of the USA as a rational power.
America really really hates women.
And wierdly is made mostly of women, who must hate woman.
Yep, women alone could have put this election in the bag for harris. That confuses me the most out of all of this…
Once again, we are shown that people (of any gender, race, or group) can and will vote directly counter to their interests.
Well that or they like being “grabbed by the pussy” or whatever the hell. Guess I will not kink shame.
Like Kamala at the DNC saying that the US needs to have the MOST LETHAL army in the world, and the crowd bursting into chants of “USA, USA, USA”?
*of voters
The rest apparently don’t care either way
They’re not to blame. They’ve been convinced by a powerful, wealthy propaganda machine that their identity is more important than their planet, their children’s futures, or their own basic human rights. They were scared, tired, desperate, and when the machine came for them and it felt so good they bought it without checking the receipt. They’ve been tricked into giving away their futures and they are going to suffer for it. They’re stupid, but they’re not evil.
That’s bs, it just takes 1 hour of your day to go put a mark on a piece of paper and be done with it…
Pure laziness and complacency
… The voters? We’re talking about the people who cast votes. Not the ones who didn’t vote. Keep up.
The comment above yours was referring to the rest of people who could vote but didn’t, and I thought you said they were not to blame.
Anyways it just means most of the US is ok with trump, which is absolutely insane.
Your logic completely nullifies human capacity for agency and thus makes no sense whatsoever. Conditioning is important but it does not negate responsibility. Not yet anyway…
If my argument nullified the capacity for agency then propaganda could not exist.
I am saying that propaganda was used to make people vote for Trump. Without that propaganda, they may have voted in their own interests, like protecting bodily autonomy and basic human rights.
Propaganda is the thing that swayed them.
Some people are defenseless to it. They never stood a chance against the billion-dollar machine built specifically to win their vote. I feel sorry for them because they were tricked into giving away their futures.
I absolutely agree that propaganda and misleading information in general has a significant impact and most people don’t have the neccessary literacy skills to navigate conteporary information environments. And to be fair - they’re not easy to navigate. However, I do not agree that “they [people] are not to blame” in that ultimately adults must take responsibility (and blame) for their own actions and words, even if they are victims of disinformation or other types of misleading content. Because to argue the opposite would basically take away any responsibility from wrongdoing (intentional or otherwise) and would also mean that justice systems based on rule of law are meaningless and unnessary. Which is obviously not true.
We can’t have a stable system of governance where nobody can be blamed because everyone is some manner of stupid, ignorant, misled, uneducated about something, etc. Such a system simply wouldn’t be able to work in practice for the reasons I mention above.
Mind you, this doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t study or aknowledge the power that conditioning and misleading information have on collective political perceptions, and try to counter that as far as possible. But that is very different from saying “they are not to blame” and absolving people of their decisions and actions. It is a catch-22 but that is what the human condition ultimately is.
Some of them, yes. I have family that fit your description, but I also have family filled with anger and spite. The ones who hold hate I can and will blame for it.
No. It is YOUR fault if YOU fall for propaganda. Its time to hold people accountable for their stupidity
Sounds close-minded, selfish and hateful. You’d be a great Trump supporter.
Not really. Voter engagement always swings more right than left, the fact the numbers aren’t that far off means it’s likely more than 50%.
Unfortunately, just shy of 50%