I’m not even American, so it doesn’t affect me directly, but I am scared to death of a Trump presidency.
I am one of those people here who think that Biden is a far more competent executor of imperialist policies compared to Trump, but what I am even more afraid of is the early death of nascent left wing movements in America.
I am reminded of how the KPD getting its leaders murdered by Freikorps thugs during the Spartacist uprising (mind you, a much stronger party than any leftist movement in America today), and how its continued suppression paved the way to Nazi Germany.
Project 2025 will effectively embolden fascist thugs in America to do the same to the left wing movements, many of which are still in their cradle, and the death of leftist movements in their infancies will inevitably pave the way to a fascist America and undo many of the progress that had been made over decades.
The world cannot afford a fascist America. Imagine Hitler with nukes. The world will have to pay a much, much larger price as a result.
On this reasoning alone, I believe that Trump needs to be stopped at all cost. But many here have disagreed with me, and I need you to persuade me why I shouldn’t be afraid of Project 2025 at all. Even if the chance of that happening is 10%, I’m still not ready to gamble with it.
(I’m not saying we have to support Biden, I believe it is somewhat inevitable, I’m saying that we have to buy ourselves as much time as possible, even if it means strategic voting, to build a resilient leftist movement while delaying the inevitable for as long as we can.)
Wouldn’t that mean it’s in the left’s interest to delay as long as possible the Republicans’ chances of getting into office?
That argument is based on two erroneous assumptions.
That the venn diagram of “the left” and “Democratic party policymakers” isn’t two circles separated by a gulf traversable in our lifetime only by warp drive.
That there’s any real distinction between Republicans with red lawn signs and Republicans with blue lawn signs besides which geopolitical rival they’re more terrified by.
Can you make a case that Biden would not just do project 2025 stuff bipartisanly? He ran against Trump’s border policy and wall and has now fully adopted Trump’s border policy and wall, he ran against Trump’s economic war on China and has fully adopted it.
You can’t fight off conservative policies by reelecting a conservative politician (Biden).
I agree there is no guarantee, and it’s really just based on the fact that at least the Democrats are not openly calling for the blood of leftists. It’s more about survival mode, and buying as much time as is needed to build a movement that cannot be easily squashed by the establishment. Of course, whether the American left has the capacity to reach that state, is another question of its on.
The American “left”, such as it exists, virtually vanishes under blue administrations. This is because most of the American “left” are just “progressive” liberals who are more than happy to completely ignore injustice and right wing policies as long as it’s their team doing it. For any left movement to flourish in America would require a Republican administration. Also worth noting that when Republicans call for the blood of leftists, they mean like… Hillary Clinton, or Chuck Schumer, or Barack Obama. They don’t even know what leftism is and couldn’t find it with a map and both hands.
The people I’ve seen shot by chuds or hit by a car at protests would disagree. Mainstream Republicans maybe not but they are invigorating their base to do the shit for them, just as every budding fascist movement has. The democrats are essentially the same, especially on the world stage, but I am hesitant to dismiss the threat from Republicans in this aspect because of trauma I’ve experienced.
I think it’s more accurate to say that chuds don’t know (or care about) the difference between the demonrats the person you’re replying to mentioned and actual leftists.
That’s a good point, they might shoot actual communists at times, but they also shoot mail workers for being feds or whatever, most of them think Biden is a far-left radical communist
That is the politicians’ empty rhetoric, yes, but the capitalist class may very well sic cops and brownshirts on us. Bipartisan bills denouncing the horrors of socialism are not for nothing, they’re prep work.
True. Like when Obama called in the national guard to violently repress the Ferguson uprising, and put FBI snipers on the roof during Occupy to assassinate organizers/leaders if things got any more radical.
I used to say the border wall thing too, turns out that’s not super right, here’s a map:
from here https://www.newsweek.com/border-wall-map-joe-biden-donald-trump-1832649
https://apnews.com/article/border-wall-biden-immigration-texas-rio-grande-147d7ab497e6991e9ea929242f21ceb2
Joe Biden went out of his way to use the executive pen to waive 26 federal laws so that section of wall could be built. He ran against the border wall. I don’t really care if he’s waiving laws to only build a few miles - it’s a complete 180* turn from his campaign and serves absolutely nobody. He’s not going to win in Texas, red voters in other states aren’t going to change their minds because of it. He’s doing it purely because he’s a right winger himself and is ideologically closer to Trump than any average blue voter is.
Can you make the case for how the democratic party is systemically delaying the rightward shove this country is experiencing? Key word there being systemically. If you could then yes, voting Democrat would be the right option. But I don’t think you or anyone could. The Democrats are not interested in delaying fascism in the US, they’re fine with fascism as long as they keep their stock portfolio in tact.