This comment was in response to someone expressing regret about joining .ml if I recall correctly

Edit: I’m convinced all this guy does is camp out in front of his computer and wait for an excuse to abuse what itty bitty power he has.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.worldMEnglish
      41·
      2 months ago

      Genocide denialism is probably one of the least objectionable reasons to get banned from a community.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.worldMEnglish
          21·
          2 months ago

          Yeah. Unfortunately. All we can do is voice opposition to whichever one is achieving its goals at any given moment - Hamas in the immediate aftermath of October 7th, and Israel now.

          Maybe someday they’ll sit the fuck down and figure out that this conflict can’t continue forever. Well, Hamas and Bibi never will, but whatever representatives of the Palestinian and Israeli people emerge from the other side of this phase of our everlasting Israel-Palestine conflict.

          • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
            11·
            2 months ago

            The fault is on both of them, really. Israel had plenty of warnings from Jordan, Egypt, the US, the EU and their own security agency about an attack in October.

            Of course, there is always an attack, and Israel is also not allowed to stop an attack before it happens, instead only after it happens.

              • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
                01·
                2 months ago

                Well they were actually attacked from more than just Hamas, but it is Hamas that perpetrated the massacres. It doesn’t help that Hamas took hostages. If there were no hostage-taking, none of this would be as messy as it is.

                In my personal armchair opinion, I think Israel should’ve waited before immediately going for the hostages to get some international support. But then again, that’s giving Hamas power.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.worldMEnglish
          22·
          2 months ago

          A genocide isn’t waging war, a genocide is actively hunting civilians and making life impossible.

          Yeah, that’s what Israel is doing

          I don’t know what else you get from Israel’s actions and stated concerns. In a year, they’ve killed a greater percentage of Gazans than Coalition forces killed Iraqis in all ~10 years of the Iraq War. And Coalition forces in Iraq were (rightfully) accused of being metaphorically trigger-happy.

              • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
                2·
                2 months ago

                Please don’t use Al Jazeera, they are owned by the Qatari government, which is the same government that actively holds Hamas leadership. They are extraordinarily biased and not to be taken seriously.

            • PugJesus@lemmy.worldMEnglish
              11·
              2 months ago

              So, what would you accept as a credible source for Israeli genocide, theoretically?

                • PugJesus@lemmy.worldMEnglish
                  11·
                  2 months ago

                  As mentioned above, there is no genocide, and that’s why no credible source is speaking about a genocide.

                  Theoretically speaking, what sources would you accept as authoritative on the matter of an ongoing genocide?

                  • ahornsirup@feddit.orgEnglish
                    2·
                    2 months ago

                    Majority. As long as they can present convincing evidence (i.e. evidence that doesn’t rely on trusting the word of Hamas and/or their friends in Doha and Tehran).

                    Edit: I’ll also say that I trust some Western governments more than others. I’ll take the word of the current German government over that of the current Italian one, for example.

        • mindbleach@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          02·
          2 months ago

          A genocide is what hamas did on 7th October

          Okay, so you’re just making shit up as you go along.

          One attack cannot be a genocide.

          An ongoing campaign to deprive an entire population of food, water, medicine, electricity, and any route to escape is pretty fucking obviously within the UN definition of genocide.

          • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
            2·
            2 months ago

            Hamas has stated clearly that their desire is the extermination of Jews globally.

            In 2017, they changed it to just Israel, but Hamas forces don’t actually use that charter.

            • mindbleach@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              02·
              2 months ago

              … does it matter what they say or doesn’t it?

              You’re not trying to have it both ways anywhere near as badly as this schmuck, but you are trying to have it both ways.

              • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
                2·
                2 months ago

                Of course it matters what either side says, especially if what they say is genocide.

                Neither Gaza nor Israel are innocent in the war.

            • Atomic@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              02·
              2 months ago

              Have you been living under a rock and purposefully avoiding all the coverage of how Israel have been bombing these “open civilian corridors”?

              https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/16/middleeast/israel-palestinian-evacuation-orders-invs/index.html

              https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/gaza-civilians-afraid-to-leave-home-after-bombing-of-safe-routes

              https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67114281

              https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-airstrike-kills-women-children-fleeing-evacuation-route-northern-gaza-2023-10

              Maybe you missed the news of how Israel have spent millions of dollars on killing more than 200 aid workers.

              You claim intention is needed. What do you call intentionally shelling the “civilian corridors” they themselves tell people to use?

              They trap them inside, and shell them continuously. More than a 150’000 people have died as just an indirect cause, being denied clean water, food, shelter and medical supplies.

              https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hospitals-destruction-investigation-intl-cmd/

              I’ll give you a quick tldr; because I know to won’t.

              20 out of Gaza’s 22 hospitals were damaged or destroyed during the first 2 months, 14 of which suffered direct attacks from Israel.

              What do you think the intent is behind taking out hospitals? I think the intent is to deny medical aid to the hundreds of thousands civilian casualties.

              By everything you yourself have stated. What they’re doing is a genocide. Their intention is to exterminate the Palestinian people. Gaza will be reduced to rubble. Along with everyone in it. And after there’s nothing left and no one can live there. Israel will sieze it.

              This little port you think you can use as proof otherwise is nothing but bare minimum to try and make it seem like that’s not what they’re doing. Like a child pretending to cough so they can stay home from school.

              • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
                2·
                2 months ago

                Please be aware that Hamas is a terrorist organisation, meaning that they don’t have a strict militia, and they often disguise themselves as civilians. So long as Hamas continues to hide in civilian infrastructure, legally, the IDF can continue these attacks.

                The UN has told Hamas to stop this for decades, but it’s fallen on deaf ears and is likely to continue.

                Likewise, where is your evidence of the 150k figure? Isn’t the figure 38-40k?

                • Atomic@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  02·
                  2 months ago

                  Yes. They do. If you actually read them you would know. For example. In the second link. It’s explicitly stated in the first paragraph.

                  A convoy of vehicles carrying fleeing civilians in Gaza that was hit by a deadly airstrike was travelling on one of the two roads identified by the Israeli army as “safe routes” to the southern half of the strip, according to analysis.

                  You must have “missed” that.

                  It’s funny because any criticism you will drape it as antisemitism. The proof is so overwhelming. Bombing of safe routes, taking out hospitals as a first priority, little by little they are already reducing the strip to rubble. That’s not me thinking they will. That’s them currently doing it.

      • ahornsirup@feddit.orgEnglish
        24·
        2 months ago

        It’s the objective truth. Yes, the IDF could probably do more to protect civilians but at the absolute worst what they’re doing is comparable to the conduct of the Western Allies against Germany in WW2.

        • azertyfun@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          21·
          2 months ago

          Israel dropping unguided bombs from 10k feet from prop airplanes is certainly an “entertaining” thought but so far removed from the reality of precision guided missiles hitting hospitals and snipers shooting unarmed civilians and journalists in the back that it loops back around to being funny in a very morbid way.

    • pivot_root@lemmy.worldEnglish
      12·
      2 months ago

      Saying, there is no genocide in Gaza in your opinion, or making an assertion about the subject? There’s a big difference between the two.

      Edit: Ah, yeah. That explains a lot.

        • pivot_root@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11·
          2 months ago

          “At least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the (Genocide) Convention,” the judges said.

          …

          A majority of at least 15 out of 17 judges voted in favour of imposing the so-called provisional measures, including the court’s president, Joan Donoghue of the United States.

          From your source. 15 out of 17 judges agreed to tell Israel to stop committing acts that “[fall] within the provisions of the (Genocide) Convention.” You realize that phrasing is the diplomatic way of saying “stop committing genocide,” right?

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
          01·
          2 months ago

          they both don’t target civilians and they do their best to keep civilians out of harms way

          Are you sure you’re up to date on the war? Because this is not as true as one would hope.

    • Kaboom@reddthat.comEnglish
      25·
      2 months ago

      Thank you! Reading lemmy, you’d think the IDF was Hamas or something.

        • Kaboom@reddthat.comEnglish
          07·
          2 months ago

          Yup, by not committing a genocide and reclaiming their homeland, they’re much worse than the invaders who already committed one.

          (Israel is the ancestoral homeland of the Jews, Muslims committed a genocide when they conquered the area)

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldMEnglish
            4·
            2 months ago

            Quick question - if Native Americans killed 1 out of every 50 US citizens in an attempt to drive them off of Native ancestral land, would this be:

            A. Ethnic cleansing

            OR

            B. Not ethnic cleansing

            ?

                • Kaboom@reddthat.comEnglish
                  06·
                  2 months ago

                  Great, so we agree. White people committed a genocide against the Indians when they conquered the Americas, just like Muslims committed a genocide against the Jews when they conquered the Middle East.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldMEnglish
                    2·
                    2 months ago

                    Accepting that premise for the sake of the argument, since the history of the region’s disruption of the Jewish population predates Islam, so does that genocide justify another genocide some hundreds of years later?