On one hand, absolutely. You’re not a bad person because you enjoyed a Roman Polanski film. OTOH, if you keep religiously watching The Cosby Show, you might be giving off signals to others you probably don’t want to.
We have all sinned, every one of us. Even if we didn’t realize it at the time, we see our actions years later and are disgusted with ourselves.
The time for purity tests are over, it’s time to admit that deep down the human experience is being a giant piece of shit, but it is also trying to cleanse yourself of such burdensome humanity and grow into something far kinder, far smarter, far more empathetic, far more patient, and above all, far more wonderful than a human being.
it’s time to admit that deep down the human experience is being a giant piece of shit
Well, I’m tempted to say “speak for yourself there, buddy”. I’d agree if you said that a lot of people are like that, but you seem to imply that goes for basically everyone?
Look everyone, he without sin!
I mean there’s sinned, and there’s raped and trafficked people. So it really depends on what the person did and on if you want to support that or not. I don’t think refusing to watch works from pedophiles or abusers is a bad thing. I refuse to watch Polanski for what he did, I don’t care if his latest movie is good, I won’t watch it. But I can watch Guillermo del Toro movies and not feel guilty, despite the fact that he signed a petition to pardon Polanski, but what I can do is not put people in Hollywood on a pedestal so high that it hurts me when I have to remove them from it.
Otherkin rights!!!
I think there’s a difference between enjoying the media of a problematic person vs continuing to financially support said person and give their media continued relevance, thereby continuing to give them a platform with which to spew bigotry and hate.
(This comment is about she who shall not be named)
So you’re saying that just to be safe we need to pirate everything? Got it.
Anything with Tom Cruise in it gets pirated. No money for Scientology.
I think we’d be hard pressed to find media to enjoy if we needed to make sure we agree on everything with the author…
#however
that cunt is a special case because, it’s not just a case of an author having shit views in their personal life or voting a certain way quietly.
she’s an activist, whose sole purpose in life has become making life worse for a certain group of people. incredibly vile and full of hate, and very vocal about it. using her platform consistently in the worst possible way.
also she’s a bad writer.
she’s an activist, whose sole purpose in life has become making life worse for a certain group of people. incredibly vile and full of hate, and very vocal about it. using her platform consistently in the worst possible way.
She’s exactly what you’d expect from a 2nd wave radfem. It’s why so many of her ideological peers are also 2nd wave radfems. I’d bet if asked she’d tell you about how big an influence someone like Mary Daly was on her views on sex and feminism - Mary Daly was a 2nd wave radfem who likened trans people to Frankenstein’s monster and whose teaching career ended because of Title IX complaints related to her refusing to teach male students.
also she’s a bad writer.
She’s decent at storytelling but painfully awful at world building and thinking through how existing threads from previous stories might interact with the one she wants to tell this time. Her weaknesses wouldn’t shine through as much if she were writing individual, disconnected stories instead of multi-part series in a shared universe.
eh, there’s more to her writing that’s bad. she has a lot of plot points that go nowehere, seems to set a lot of stuff up with no payoff.
also she uses adverbs a lot. that “he asked calmly” meme is an example. it’s generally not advised in writing to rely on them too much, and she uses like double the amount of adverbs a good writer would use.
and of course her attempts at tying loose ends always makes them worse.
and she pretty vile. you can see it in her descriptions.
oh and she’s awful at naming things and people.
There’s a world of nuance between having to agree on everything and platforming loud bigots
I’m not known for being concise: part I
The legacy JK would have enjoyed if she just kept her fucking mouth shut and hired someone to clean the damn mold in her house.
all bigotry requires some obstruction of mental faculties but I’ve never seen anything like transphobia. true mental illness, people seem to be especially losing their mind over this particular kind of hate for some reason.
people with otherwise great privilege, wealth and power just forget about living their lives and dedicate immense energy is not their entire existence to this. eventually paranoid schizophrenia sets in and they find themselves transvestigating people. wild drug.
I think we’d be hard pressed to find media to enjoy if we needed to make sure we agree on everything with the author…
You should look up Bloodywood.
In July of the same year, Bloodywood partnered with online counselling site HopeTherapy and released the song “Jee Veerey”, dedicated to fighting depression and mental illness.[14][15] On 15 January 2019, the band released “Endurant”, a song dealing with the topic of bullying.[4]
Along with the messages included in their songs, the band aims to support various social/charity causes. With the release of the video for their song “Jee Veerey”, they gave away pre-paid online counselling sessions.
Upon returning to India from their 2019 European tour, Bloodywood donated the earnings to Posh Foundation, a local NGO that cares for homeless animals, for the purchase of a new ambulance.[22]
I think we’d be hard pressed to find media to enjoy if we needed to make sure we agree on everything with the author…
Just wanted to add that I don’t even agree on everything with MYSELF.
Don’t give more money to the millionaire mold-brain witch, pirate her shit 🏴☠️
She already have the fame, my enjoyment of her work by pirating will literally do nothing to her.
Oh no! Time to retroactively pretend the thing I liked was always bad.
Oh boy, time to point out the show that was made by a creeper had warning signs all along, but was shutdown when I previously criticized the show.
BTW, the people who wrote Transformers 4 should be investigated.
Don’t really need an investigation to know that Michael Bay is a sex pest, I’m pretty sure that one’s actually all the way out there.
I haven’t exactly found Bay to be all that interesting of a person to follow closely, but he wasn’t the sole creative person on that movie.
He was the driving force of the entire franchise. The whole thing was his creation. His Creative Vision. Chose the writers chose the actors chose everything, as well as obviously directing it. If there’s a scene in that film it’s cuz he wants it there have no doubts about that.
He’s also a known sex past as I said. Kind of odd that you leaped to his defense…
That’s not what “leaping to his defense” looks like. There’s a whole chain of people in the decision to have that subplot line. They all should be scrutinized.
Also, downvotes don’t mean anything here.
Ah, the first one is Cosby and not Alf.
Right? Like you can still enjoy their shit but not them personally. You can be a talented shit waffle
The problem is enjoying their shit gives them money and attention. Shit people don’t deserve either.
Just listen on Spotify - they get fuck all from that lmao
Yeah, that’s completely true. It’s up to each person to decide what their standards are and where they draw the line. Like Roman Polanski anally raping a 13 year old and using his money and fame to leave the country and avoid the prison time may be across one person’s line while another person says, “Eh, what can you do? It was almost 50 years ago.” Also true, but that piece of shit is still alive and making money–from people who like his work at least enough to keep consuming it.
Yeah you’re on the ball. You got to draw lines somewhere. I’m not going to listen to a band whose bit is to run over baby rabbits with a lawn mower on stage. If you’re just a general fuck stick, though I’m more willing to accept that to a degree
I don’t understand the obsession with moralizing people. Artists don’t have to be role models.
Indeed. You pay them for their work, not for what they do with their life.
That’s how you end up with a Hollywood full of sex pests
It’s a side effect of the commercialization of art.
Artists that don’t offend anyone sell better and selling as much as possible has become all that matters to all the people who enable artists to continue making art and experience more tangible and real forms of artistic success
Eventually everyone internalized it all so much that it’s a common misconception that every artist has a duty to be as commercial as possible and as such to be a role model. But only in ways that doesn’t offend anyone who’s in the target demographics.
It sucks big floppy donkey dick, but that’s how the boring dystopia that is the real world works 😮💨
Yay capitalism! We did it!
or arguably more annoying - time to pretend me not liking that person’s work was always justified!
as if people weren’t allowed to dislike things unless it was somehow morally justified
I think Kevin Spacey may be one of the best (most skilled) actors of his generation, and among the best across several generations. A true peer of Dustin Hoffman.
I was shocked by the allegations, and crushed when it became evident (to me) that it wasn’t a smear campaign.
In a way it’s crazy that I can be so emotionally engaged with someone I’ve never met, likely never will, and who has no idea I exist. OTOH, it’s not surprising when people we respect, or even idolize, turn out to be not only merely human, but morally flawed in particularly inexcusable ways.
I still feel sad and betrayed by Spacey, and it’ll forever taint my ability to enjoy his incredible performances.
If you had paid any attention to gossip in the 2000s, you’d have heard about Spacey being a creep. It was an open secret.
Yeah, I didn’t, and don’t, pay attention to celebrity gossip. In retrospect, when it was first news and it was being covered everywhere, yeah, it seems that it was pretty well known in industry.
I just watch the movies; I don’t care about the actor’s personal lives.
A lot of us avoid celebrity gossip, because 99% of it is utter drivel.
“Goddammit, he was so good at playing a creep! Why did he have to turn out to be a real creep?”
Yeah, that’s how I felt about Jonathan Majors as Kang. “He’s great! Got this fun, wild, sensitive vibe, but there’s this dark and menacing core lurking beneath.” uhuh.
Yeah man, that one hurt for sure…
I was curious about a furry I used to listen to in high school (Two the Griffin) and looked him up the other day to see what happened to him only to discover he became a Nazi pedophile and is why I had not heard of him for so long.
And since he was the furry equivalent of Maddox, I now question if Maddox is/was also a racist pedophile…
2 the Ranting Gryphon? Shit, they fell down hard it seems.
I’d make a Woody Allen joke but it just feels too soon… yi.
Just…too soon, and too close to home, you know? 😉
I see what you did there
The copium in some of these comments… Keep giving your money to terrible people so they feel rewarded for their acts and can continue to abuse others. I’m sure that will work out for the best.
I agree, there is a difference between separating the art from the artist and straight up sticking your head in the sand so you can feel good about yourself.
Harry Potter fans tripping over themselves to give Joanne more money while saying “well, she has some bad opinions, BUT…”
Fantastic example.
And where to find it
That’s why I pirate all media I engage in. That way I never support horrible people.
Or you could do that by default while very selectively supporting specific artists. That way you can both stay within your means and exercise moral discretion over who you support.
But what if the artist I choose to support turns out to be a creep later on? Do I keep the bought media or throw it out?
You can’t take back what’s already been given, so you just learn and move on. Whether to keep their art or throw it out is your choice, just don’t support them in the future.
For example, I own a painting by Salvador Dali. Salvador Dali - if you don’t know - is a fascist. I inherited the painting, and even the previous owner likely purchased the painting after Salvador Dali was dead. My owning the painting does not support Salvador Dali in any way, and the painting has nothing to do with his fascist views. Most people would not recognize that it is a Salvador Dali painting and even fewer would know about his political leanings. It doesn’t bother me to hang the painting on my wall, and in the right context and company it can even make a good conversation piece.
Yeah, it’s better to just not support anything, good or bad.
Yes. Widespread nihilism certainly will not have any negative consequences
I think the only actor I absolutely can’t stand because of RL actions is Mark Wahlberg.
Dude committed multiple hate crime assaults before he was famous. Then he tried to brush them off as water under the bridge when they surfaced, without even giving reparations to the guy he partially blinded.
And then he repeatedly plays the “misunderstood heart of gold tough guy” in all his movies.
Just can’t look past it.
No, say it ain’t so, not fawking Marky Mark!!
Feel it, feel it.
Every good person is actually a bad person trying to atone for something horrible they did.
Not sure this is true … But mainly due to nuance.
I think everyone who has reached adulthood has done bad things worthy of atonement (not because minors can’t be bad, just to set a line), regardless of whether that’s because they’re a bad person or because they made poor decisions. I think of myself as a good person - because I try to better the lives of those around me - but I can think of plenty of bad things I’ve done (primarily out of ignorance or foolishness - I don’t think I’ve ever acted with the intent of hurting someone).
I’m not trying to atone for those things; once I realized they were bad things, I did my best to fix them and once I did everything I could, I moved on (and hoped the other participants did as well). In some cases, continuing to try to atone for bad acts would have exacerbated the consequences if the other party just wanted to move on.
My mom, who was a big fan of aphorisms, used to say “if you mess up, apologize if you should, fix it if you can, and move on.” I try to live by this.
So, to reiterate the nuance: I try to fix bad things I’ve done if I can; I try to learn from them so I don’t do them again; but I don’t live my life trying to atone for them.
I do like the sentiment behind your post, in case you think us philosophically opposed.
Fuck me, who told you my secret?
My personal rule, in broadest terms is that if I cancel someone, they are released upon death.
What warrants cancelling is pretty wishy washy, and I’m sure I’m hypocritical at times. But generally speaking, if the person is dead, I feel free to enjoy their body of work.
If the person is ruined, or in jail, it’s a grey area.
And if the person is continuing to work, with little to no repercussions. They’re banned.
Depending on the media and its importance to me, at a minimum I just ensure the problematic creator is financially dead to me.
Often the media will be ruined by the reveal of the creators nature, I’ll see subtext in it I didn’t see before. So that fixes itself.
But if I enjoy the media, I’ll continue to enjoy the media privately, in my own mind, from my own hard drive, in my own art. I’ll keep online engagement to a minimum (don’t want the creator getting any benefits from analytic trends) and I’ll make sure the creator doesn’t directly see a cent from me.
Basically, if I gave them money before I “cancelled” them, I’m going to get that money back in a round about way, they don’t deserve it 🏴☠️
People always say, “only the good die young.” But that made me think. What if long-lived people are just more likely to do bad stuff over the course of their lives? Because everyone does good and bad stuff.
IMHO whether or not a person will ever be a domestic abuser or rapist is pretty much determined by the time they reach adulthood. It’s not like a good man suddenly decides to start beating his wife or raping teenagers.
I’d be interested to see any sociological evidence supporting that theory if there is any.
Xi can point out that psychologists have looked at mental health trends in communities with slaughterhouses. When a new slaughterhouse opens and people start working there, depression, alcoholism, addiction, sleep problems, violent crime, and domestic abuse go up. Make a man do violence all day for a living, and he starts to think violence is a valid way to solve problems.
That you know of. That seems like a pretty broad brush to be painting with. It may be generally true but I’d be extremely surprised if there were no exceptions.
The only counter I have to that is how sensitive our brains are to chemical, mental, and physical trauma.
Drugs, injury, and environmental stress cause easily observable behavior changes, but also changes on the brain measurable in medical imaging. And there’s a lot of acknowledgement that these changes can occur in childhood and persist.
I don’t think anyone chooses to be cruel, I think it’s forced on them in ways they can’t do anything about, and as a society we owe it to them to do better and help them.
This reminds me, I should listen to some hardcore rap while my SO is out.
Exactly, imagine separate the book from the writer? Or the software from the developer?
Or painter from the painting(that one is OK actually) Like whaat, who does that?! Message VS messanger ? Pff mumbo jumboLol one of the last things I did on Reddit was get banned for mentioning “death of the author”
I was banned on Lemmy for suggesting that a Japanese beauty contest should be run with Japanese contestants. Instead of Europeans. I was banned for racism. One lemming was even persuading me it’s actually impossible to tell who is Japanese and who is East European.
Moral piracy
