I’m not even American, so it doesn’t affect me directly, but I am scared to death of a Trump presidency.
I am one of those people here who think that Biden is a far more competent executor of imperialist policies compared to Trump, but what I am even more afraid of is the early death of nascent left wing movements in America.
I am reminded of how the KPD getting its leaders murdered by Freikorps thugs during the Spartacist uprising (mind you, a much stronger party than any leftist movement in America today), and how its continued suppression paved the way to Nazi Germany.
Project 2025 will effectively embolden fascist thugs in America to do the same to the left wing movements, many of which are still in their cradle, and the death of leftist movements in their infancies will inevitably pave the way to a fascist America and undo many of the progress that had been made over decades.
The world cannot afford a fascist America. Imagine Hitler with nukes. The world will have to pay a much, much larger price as a result.
On this reasoning alone, I believe that Trump needs to be stopped at all cost. But many here have disagreed with me, and I need you to persuade me why I shouldn’t be afraid of Project 2025 at all. Even if the chance of that happening is 10%, I’m still not ready to gamble with it.
(I’m not saying we have to support Biden, I believe it is somewhat inevitable, I’m saying that we have to buy ourselves as much time as possible, even if it means strategic voting, to build a resilient leftist movement while delaying the inevitable for as long as we can.)
It will happen no matter what, one party openly champions it and speaks harshly, the other does so by inaction and once in a while throws some nice words. The US already walked off the cliff so to speak, the lurching feeling of the fall just hasn’t caught up to some yet. There’s so many ways to keep movements down.
Yeah, one party will start the killing now and one will start the killing a little later. Is there not a clear less bad pick?
this is the 99% hitler vs 100% hitler argument
Obviously when treading in this discussion, it is necessary to genuflect and state that Biden and his entire cabinet would see [redacted] under any ethical system of government
but playing with this logic a little bit, wasn’t 1% of Hitler about a hundred thousand dead? Naturally if I say I have a preference, people will assume that I think that
ing and doing nothing else politically ever is the ideal leftist strategy, but like, if it’s just bubbling in a bubble and then getting back to the orgs, is there a reason that 99% Hitler and 100% Hitler have no meaningful differences, even if that ratio is correct?
Well I think if you’re going to engage in this kind of thing, then the comparison can’t be done in a vacuum. What happens if Biden is re-elected? Almost certainly in 2028 a Republican will win. I don’t think Trump will be able or willing to run in 2028, which means it’s probably going to be a Republican other than Trump. So, is it better to vote for 99% Hitler now to prevent 100% Hitler from being elected in 2024, knowing that there’s a very strong chance that in 2028 110% Hitler will be elected? Is it better to have 100% Hitler in 2024, expecting that another 99% Hitler would win in 2028 rather than 110% Hitler?
Beyond that, if you vote for a genocider you’re setting the precedent that the DNC doesn’t need to worry about whether genocide affects elections. The DNC should lose this race based on the genocide they have perpetrated alone.
The issue of seeing these things as static points rather than a process already live, we’re already guaranteed killing, there has been killing, there will be more killing no matter which one, one will just have more open optics and bad aesthetics for libs, the other the illusion of status quo and pretty words to give the pampered an illusion of progress. You could remove all the ‘one party’, even the fried fish sammich fan, but the conditions that created these individuals are still out in the world unsettled, so its like digging a small hole at the beach, it will just immediately fill with more sand.
‘Start’ killing whom? Because the Democrats are already killing Palestinians as we speak.
If it isn’t me it might as well not be happening!
nope!
Both parties start the killing at the same time, one is just more enthusiastic about it. Bidens border policy is worse than the previous one, he’s put more kids in cages, deported more and given more money to the cops. I struggle to think of a measure where he does less than the previous administration. Pretending like it’s “stagnation or murder” rather than “murder or murder” is folly.
On top of that voting for Biden is once again legitimising the “vote for the lesser evil” ideology that had brought us to this point. Every election the lesser evil takes the position of the evil of the previous election. Now “the lesser evil” is commiting genocide. Voting for Biden legitimises genocide, makes it so that’s no longer a step too far. What do you think the democrats will do, if they get elected on a platform of “we don’t care about genocide”?
One party is currently murdering people in droves in Palestine. Nobody with a soul could possibly vote for Joe Biden.