He can’t go any further right, so he can’t be pushed right. Ergo, he can only be pushed left. Libs owned us yet again 
Also, it’s great because the same people who said we could push him left are now mad because… we are trying to push him left
You can push him left! You shouldn’t try because that would be UNCIVIL, but, you know, you could! In theory!
What if libs were the social fascists we met along the way?
Don’t worry I’m sure once Trump loses a second time he’ll totally fizzle out and the RNC will far apart, then you can push Biden left cuz the US will be a one-party… oh wait.
I said we can push him left. Please keep pushing.
Okay Sisyphus
Awesome dig. But, it makes me wonder. Have you or your strategies made any progress, or are you just not trying to push the boulder at all? In which way are you not Sisyphus?
Have you or your strategies made any progress
How far have you pushed the boulder? I’ve pushed it sooo far that it’s publicly saying it’s a little annoyed about the genocide it’s perpetrating. That’s progress.
The increased aid isn’t nothing. It’s not enough, but it’s something we might not have without people pushing that boulder. It’s also just one issue. Overall Biden’s administration has been much further left than his history predicted.
Soooo much further left. How’s that border wall coming?
Wrt US aid, it literally is nothing, it’s PR nonsense. You CANNOT be left wing and propping up/funding a genocide.
That nothing aid is saving lives. You clearly care more about being smug than helping Palestinians. If it were Trump I guarantee it would be worse.
We’re feeding the people who are being shot by the people we are arming.
Progress!
Well it’s only fair, death row inmates get a last meal after all.
There are huge pro-Palestine protests going on in the states, (and elsewhere) have been since October 7th. He still refuses to budge a fucking inch, funding & arming the genocide whilst USian citizens get in shit for supporting Palestine.
That boulder?
I didn’t ask “which boulder”. To put it plainly, my question was what different strategy from pushing Biden left has achieved something more, or whether they just prefer to be a bystander and jeer from the sidelines.
Biden is far from perfect, but he has indeed been pushed to the left on many issues. Based on his record it would be fair to predict that he would be right of Obama of Clinton, and he has generally been further left. (Not a high bar to clear.)
Are you a complete asshole? He is literally funding and arming a fucking genocide. Where the fuck do you draw the line if not at genocide?
He has not been pushed left on anything. He canned his student debt relief plans, he’s currently in the middle of lettings tons of anti-trans bills pass while pushing a bill that includes a ban on pride flags at embassies and such. He is not dramatically different from any Republican, he still puts kids in cages at the border.
You remind me why I hate liberals so passionately.
He’s NOT perfect okay, nobody is. Sure there’s the genocide and the concentration camps and the border wall and the strike breaking and you know what? Look, we all make mistakes, that’s what makes us human. Like Jesus said, let anyone who is without sin throw the first stone.
I mean… I know he’s murdering babies… but like… its not OUR babies.
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eat shit and die liberal scum
Death to America
I’m not pushing on that boulder no. I’m doing lots of actual effective organizing and effort elsewhere though. Stuff that makes real differences to real people. So you keep wasting your effort on voting for genocide and I’ll keep cleaning up the mess you make. Hopefully someday you stop wasting your time supporting genocide and instead start spending it doing something that matters
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Genocide isn’t on the ballot? Wow, maybe we should violently overthrow whatever “democracy” doesn’t let you vote against genocide. The popular vote amounts to those fake steering wheels in cars for toddlers anyways.
So that’s your alternative? A violent overthrow of the US government? Ignoring the fact that it’s not possible, there would be no Palestinians left by the time it was done. The aid would certainly come to a swift end.
The left (including myself) couldn’t gather enough support to nominate Bernie, but you think you can put together a cohesive army to overthrow the US by force? And who’s to say the left would even be in control when the smoke cleared? You are just being ridiculous.
So did you miss the US putting forward a weak ceasefire resolution at the UN Security Council? Yeah, it wasn’t good enough (and that’s why it failed) but that’s a huge leap from where we were before when the US was absolutely opposed to a ceasefire. That sure as hell looks like a result of electoral pressure. The uncommitted campaign did that, and if it weren’t for fucking coward Blue No Matter Who’s like you we’d actually be able to push Biden on the issue.
If we fail it’s your fault.
I supported the uncommitted campaign. Biden is still better for Palestine than Trump, and you still have no viable path to a third option. The politics of outrage just drives people away.
You’re just defining a tiny in-group, then putting everyone else in an out-group. There is no room for building alliances or cooperation because everyone else is just the enemy. It wouldn’t even matter if we had rank choice voting, you would still be irrelevant.
Voting uncommitted.
Have you or your strategies made any progress, or are you just not trying to push the boulder at all?
You’ve admitted yourself that the uncommitted campaign is the only thing that has actually served to push him to the left, so yes? They have. Your plan to be committed while lying about being uncommitted can only serve to undermine our effort in the long run, so fuck off, liberal scum
Lmao have your strategies worked? “We can push them left” has been the motto for several decades now, and were are we? The Dems won’t even fight for abortion rights anymore. This was unthinkable 8 years ago. The platonic ideal of a compromise the left has been sold has time and again been proven to do nothing but cede ground to the right.
The reason Dems masturbate to the word “bi-partisan” while screaming like demons at any who dare suggest they should maybe worn with their left wing base, is because the Dems know they don’t have to appease that base as long as troglodytes like you keep regurgitating the same tired mottos instead of giving a shit.Well I voted for Hilary so no that strategy didn’t work.
Now I didn’t vote and just make fun of liberals online. Learned my lesson.
He got pushed so far left that he ended up being in the far right. Horseshoe theory do be like that though
With what leverage?
Whatever is available? The uncommitted votes seem to have moved his rhetoric (which does help change opinions) and contributed to increasing aid to Gaza. He’s not where I want him to be, but it is something.
I totally understand complaints that he hasn’t moved enough, but if that’s not connected to some kind of effort to do better than it’s kind of pointless. People who have achieved nothing shouldn’t be mocking those who have achieved something.
and contributed to increasing aid to Gaza
While still abetting a genocide
Sending aid to Gaza is fine in a vacuum, but it’s fucking meaningless when he’s the one assisting in the genocide
I’m not sure the people who got those meals agree with you.
50+ years of American foreign policy is aiding and abetting this genocide. The position Biden is in at this moment gives him limited leverage. The second he drops aid to Israel, that leverage is gone. Threats are dangerous if following through makes you powerless.
A series of small punishments maximizes leverage in situations like this. Kill one hostage at a time, and you are taken seriously. Kill all the hostages and you get taken out. Israel has other places to go for aid and alliances. America needs a foothold in the Middle East, and Israel works far better than Saudi Arabia which has its own genocide going on.
I think Biden should be moving faster, but he has the right strategy. Turn up the heat a bit at a time to maximize leverage instead of pulling all support “on principle” and burning all the leverage for nothing. I care more about outcome than purity.
Biden has all the leverage. The Israeli state cannot function as it does without massive support - financial, political, military - from the USA. Hell, they can’t even carry out this genocide to this extent without US (and it’s allies) help. They’re relying on the US and UK for targeting info and having support and surveillance flights (at the very least) run out of RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. They’re used British and American mercenaries and volunteers, signing deals with fucking Blackwater (now renamed) for land grabs in Gaza.
You seem to have created and swallow this bizarre rubric about imaginary ‘gaining political leverage’ that does not reflect any actual relationship to material reality.
How has the US turned the heat up? By doubling down on blocking and vetoing international efforts to get Israel to accept international law? By starting a military conflict in the Red Sea to break a blockade of Israel? By granting and proposing more new massive spending bills that will send weapons and support to Israel? By pressuring it’s allies and puppet states to defund the only real UN organisation on the ground that not only provides aid, but could actually observe and report the scale of the deaths and atrocities taking place? By giving it’s media apparatus carte blanche to triple down on spewing disinformation, already debunked atrocity propaganda, and genocide justification? By proposing and supporting massive crackdowns on free speech and protest from the streets to college campuses?
And what are the achievements for Palestine the Biden admin and US allies have supposedly won? Fuck all.
If there’s even an ounce of sincerity in you and your argument, then put aside all the vague, unquantifiable political media talk about leverage or political capital or diplomatic strategy and look at the simple facts. What has happened. What has been done. What hasn’t been done. Not press statements, not political speeches. Material reality.
And if you can’t do that, then it’s time to admit to yourself that all this spurious logic about imagined restrictions or political game playing is just veil you’ve thrown over the fact that you simply do not care enough to oppose or perhaps even support the horrors of this genocide. That you’re telling yourself you’re not party to it as you watch more and more people die, perhaps hoping that Israel can just hurry up and finish the job so you can throw up your hands and say, ‘we tried but it was too little too late’. You can cling to that veil to try and tell yourself you’re one of the good, moral people if you want. But people here are telling you, it’s so fucking sheer that everyone else can and will see right through it to what you are.
Flour massacre
What does the Biden admin ‘changing their rhetoric’ while still doing the exact same material things do, except help launder and disguise the continued participation in genocide?
Aiding and abetting genocide is just a “complaint” to you?
Honestly my guy if that’s where your at, why not just be a Trump supporter, it’s clear you have no principles or sense of morality so what’s holding you back from going all the way, is it the decorum?
That’s what you think you read? I can’t even figure where you think you see that. No, that’s not what I think.
I totally understand complaints that he hasn’t moved enough
You literally called people’s opposition to Biden’s support for genocide “complaints”, are you high on something? You can barely conceal your racism you dumb fuck lmao
You don’t understand those complaints. If you did you wouldnt be talking down to people like this.
You contradict yourself in a single reply here.
On the one hand you admit “The uncommitted votes seem to have moved his rhetoric … it is something.”
But then you go on to contradict that by implying we’ve “achieved nothing”. You seem like you’re not a serious person at all. Or at the very least not intellectually honest.
The uncommitted votes seem to have moved his rhetoric
Wow so you’re telling me it’s working and we should stop? Great idea idiot
I see you support the uncommitted movement and thats good in my book. However, do you think the left should vote uncommitted in the primary but still vote for Biden in November?
I think that id Trump is elected in November then things get worse for Palestine. What do you think?
Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining. American support for Israeli atrocities has been bipartisan foreign policy for decades. Both Biden and Trump are rabid on this issue. The only difference is that democrats will pretend it’s the Likud party or honestly just Netanyahu’s fault and not the actual inherent nature of a settler colonial regime. Republicans don’t bother with such formalities. They are more honest about their bloodthirst. (I wonder why? Could it be that looking at Israel is like looking in the mirror for Amerikkkans?)
How? How can things possibly get worse? What do you even think Trump could do to make things worse for people who are already being starved to death while being bombed?
He can’t go any further right
That’s where you’re wrong
so he can’t be pushed right
Don’t jinx it
In honor of my good friend Strom Thurmond, I’m bringing back segregation. Because of, you know. The thing!
The American people knows how committed my administration has been in the promotion of equal rights for millions of Black Americans. That’s why I am now proud to announce the latest step in the fight against racial inequality, that I call the “Partitioned Yet Proportionate” doctrine.
We Pushed biden Left! We pushed him all the way from war with China to war in the middle-East.
if we keep pushing, eventually we can have war in north america
Maybe if we keep pushing him right he’ll have an integer overflow and turn in to giga-che.
Ghandi from Civilization games but in reverse
It’s horseshoe politics.
If he goes any farther to the right he’ll end up on the left!
Sadly it’s a fishhook, so he just ends in the centre
if he gets any more right he bounces back
Trampoline Theory proven
