Sure, every person wants to play a game filled with only half naked sexy women in it, it’s not off-putting nor embarassing at all for anyone ever, because only lonely basement dwellers buy and play vidyagames, right?
For fuck sakes, I like the Witcher Saga games but it’s so embarassing that every single non-evil woman shows off so much cleavage all the time, makes me feel like a fucking creep for playing it. Sure the politics of the game arent great either, etc
The second one had decent politics if you go with Elf Guevara instead of fantasy gestapo.
but it’s so embarassing that every single non-evil woman shows off so much cleavage all the time
Especially insulting because one of the biggest offenders, Triss, was in the books. She had like 4 character traits. One of them was that she NEVER SHOWS CLEAVAGE. EVER. She has extreme trauma related to a time she was almost burned to death, and she was very self-conscious of the faint burn scars that were still visible on her chest from that experience.
So some dipshit at CDPR reads that and goes, “Ah, yes, I have just the outfit for her. How’s this?” It’s so fucking cringe goddamn it pisses me off
An Imgur link was detected in your comment. Here are links to the same location on alternative frontends that protect your privacy.
For fuck sakes, I like the Witcher Saga games but it’s so embarassing that every single non-evil woman shows off so much cleavage all the time, makes me feel like a fucking creep for playing it. Sure the politics of the game arent great either, etc
Witcher 1 had Geralt collecting tradings cards of women he slept with in provocative poses. Like you sleep with them, it fades to black, then the trading card fills up the screen.
Real bad time to have your parents walk in the room.
Anyway, I’m glad they realized how cringe they were being and toned it down a bit.
Witcher 1 had Geralt collecting tradings cards of women he slept with in provocative poses. Like you sleep with them, it fades to black, then the trading card fills up the screen.
I still remember the first time I accidentally found out this happens. Really turned me off the (already pretty bad and clunky) game. I only finished it because I wanted to see where the story goes.
Huh? They’ve been pretty ok after the 1st one, which admittedly was very cringe.
Politics or booba?
Booba. Witcher 1 was baaad.
Haven’t played it yet, but apparently you collect naked pics of the NPC you get laid with. The level of creepnes man
I played 2, didn’t finish it, and started 3 some months ago
I’m gonna be real with you: Bayonetta was created by a man, and don’t give me that “designed by a woman” bs bc we all have a job to do and we all need to put bread on the table. Hideki’s comments about women being “intimidating” and “competitive” especially put things into perspective with Bayonetta’s design. It’s just another form that the male gaze and heteronormative sex appeal can take (dominating and competent instead of the usual submissive and helpless woman). A better example of a dominating and competent female vg character would be Karlach. You can have a “sexy” character without making them sexist.
I say this as someone that played and loves the first 2 games (I’m not supporting a Zionist voice actress that hates the living fuck out of people like me, so I’m not playing 3).
I think this meme is mostly correct. Maybe a case can be made for 2B, but I personally stand by what I said about all of them. People have no reason to hate on Eve (or stellar blade for that matter), unless they also find Bayonetta and 2B’s design problematic as well.
She’s probably going to be just as “well written” as the other two characters, you don’t know until you’ve played the game.
She really is no different than the other 2 characters in design philosophy as well, if we’re being honest.
All 3 were developed and designed (or had to undergo design approval) by men, all 3 are sexualized on purpose to cater to a mostly male-hetero fan base, all 3 have had (and in Eve’s case currently have) a toxic “gamer gate” crowd that’s blaming feminists and feminism for “taking away their hot women” and replacing them with “ugly women”
so yeahI strongly disagree with this comment.
Bayonetta is not a sexualized character, she is a sexual character. A female character being sexualized means that there is external emphasis on her sexuality when the character herself does not define herself by her sexuality in a major way. My go-to example for this is Sonya Blade in Mortal Kombat 9, who is supposed to be a tough, no-nonsense military woman but who wears skimpy clothing for no reason other than
, despite it making no sense for who she is as a character. Bayonetta does define herself by her sexuality, she’s flirty and sexy because she wants to present herself that way. And sure, you could argue that that is still imposed on her by an outside entity because she is a fictional character, but you can guess where that line of reasoning would lead you.There are plenty of women who enjoy being sexy and who define themselves by their sexuality as Bayonetta does. It only becomes a problem when women who don’t want to be (primarily) perceived as sexy are forced to do so by outside entities to appeal to the male gaze. That is when someone who isn’t “sexual” by themselves becomes sexualized. This is absolutely not the case for Bayonetta, she has full agency over her sexuality and expresses it out of her own volition.
Karlach is a completely different character archetype than Bayonetta is. Karlach’s sexuality is not a primary aspect of her character the same way Bayonetta’s is, a better comparison from BG3 would be Mizora. A competent, dominant character who presents herself as sexy. Mizora is not a sexualized character, but if you put Shadowheart in Mizora’s outfit while making no changes to who she is as a character, that would be an example of sexualization. If there was a scene where Mizora gives the player a lapdance it wouldn’t be much of an issue because it makes sense for her character to want to do that, if there was a lapdance scene for Shadowheart it would be a very different thing.
You can criticize Bayonetta for being a man’s idea of a female power fantasy character, but you can’t criticize her overt sexuality as an inherent flaw. Plenty of women do enjoy being perceived as sexual beings, they enjoy the idea of being a succubus or a seductress, and the idea of only women being allowed to create characters like that is ridiculous. Sexy, seductive female characters in games are not inherently misogynistic.
This is absolutely not the case for Bayonetta, she has full agency over her sexuality and expresses it out of her own volition.
Because the writers chose to write her that way. Dominatrix is a fetish, that’s what Bayonetta is. A fetish. She is literally wearing a cat suit in the first game she has a whip that has a mask with thigh high belted heels and an enemy punish animation that solidifies all of this.
I can write a character, make her a middle eastern woman, and then write her to be utterly helpless and in need of a white man to save her from her “evil” culture.
I can do all of that, and if someone calls me out for reinforcing harmful and problematic stereotypes I can simply say:
Plenty of women do enjoy being perceived as submissive and weak beings, they enjoy the idea of being a damsel in distress. Helpless female characters in games are not inherently misogynistic.
Which is why I talked about who made Bayonetta, because that is what separates a character like Uncle Ruckus from being an actual Uncle Tom and a straight up minstrel show act.
And just to add:
My go-to example for this is Sonya Blade in Mortal Kombat 9, who is supposed to be a tough, no-nonsense military woman but who wears skimpy clothing for no reason other than, despite it making no sense for who she is as a character.
This reminds me of the “no black elves” argument. In fiction you can write whatever you want. There are no rules that you have to follow aside from grammer and punctuation. Bayonetta could have been written to be able to do what she does without nudity being used a reward for executing a certain combo or beating a boss.
The problem with talking about Bayonetta is that it’s a video game character, and the over represented majority of gamers are horny chuds, and when it gets to things with actual nuances like if a character is sexualized or is representing women sexual liberation you get bullshit thrown in, I’ve noticed this in I have the misfortune of witnessing a discussion about Bayonetta.
Such a “sexual” vs. “sexualized” character is just someone with a modicum of skill going “Nah, it’s cool, she is into being hot.”
I don’t care, for the record. I think it’s fine to make characters that are hot and enjoy that.
Im sorry but who designed the characters asside theres no way that SB is going to have anywhere near the narrative depth of Nier Automata or even Bayonetta. Its just not going to happen. Ive heard the gameplay is good and thats nice i suppose but this is about charachter depth.
And Nier and Bayo have not been championed by chuds to anywhere near the same extent SB has, and have huge queer fanbases. Its never been the same.
Personally I read Bayo’s sexuality as being positive, nonobjectifying, and empowering but like your allowed not to. But ive met plenty of women who agree with my take so I stand by it. Seems subjective to me.
2B is not that, she’s sexualized in an objectifying way, but I will reiterate the massive queer fanbase the game has, as well as there being much much more to 2B than a nice butt.
(Also i just fucking hate SB’s visual presentiation/art style and like Bayo and Nier’s so).
Also i dont think “designed by a woman” is entirly irrelevant unless she had no input and just followed directions?
And Nier and Bayo have not been championed by chuds to anywhere near the same extent SB has, and have huge queer fanbases. Its never been the same.
Nope. If anything, those were worse. Especially during Bayonetta 2’s release. As for having queer fans, wait till SB comes out. You don’t know, maybe she is well written and maybe she will have a fan base that’s just a big if not bigger than Bayonetta’s and 2B’s.
Im sorry but who designed the characters aside there’s no way that SB is going to have anywhere near the narrative depth of Nier Automata or even Bayonetta.
Implying those games have depth. I skip the cutscenes in Bayonetta 1&2 for a reason. They’re not worth my time, and the gameplay is really why I replay these games.
Metal gear solid has narrative, BioShock has narrative, TLOS has narrative, Stardew Valley and Fae Farms have narrative.
Action hack and slash games rarely have anything to offer, beyond gameplay. I’m saying this as someone that’s played ninja Gaiden Sigma/Black, DMC 1, 2, 4, 5, Bayonetta 1&2, and the full GOW series.
Nope. If anything, those were worse.
You must not have been online in the past few months sorry. Theres no way Bayo or Nier had the same degree of reactionairy circlejerk around it that SB has had. SB has been supposedly the cure for wokeness for capital G gamers for months now. I was online for those other games release and dont remember anything even close to that. Some controversy over Bayo, but people on both sides including feminist defenders like the other person who replied to you. And quiet frankly I remember nothing at all like that about Nier. Maybe I just didnt see it lmao but I can’t imagine it being as vitrolic as the SB stuff has been. That shit is a dumpster fire.
You don’t know, maybe she is well written and maybe she will have a fan base that’s just a big if not bigger than Bayonetta’s and 2B’s.
I have my doubts, but sure I guess. One of my queer friends is already defending the game because she has cute nonsexualized alternate outfits so that could be the start of something. But I dont think its going to make ripples like those other games. For one thing, she doesnt really have a design that appeals to queer women really? At least in the default outfit??
Implying those games have depth. I skip the cutscenes in Bayonetta 1&2 for a reason. They’re not worth my time, and the gameplay is really why I replay these games.
Uh, yeah no. Going to strongly disagree that Bayonetta and especially Nier Automata dont have narrative depth. The fact that you skip the cutscenes is a you thing lol.
You compare it to Stardew but Stardew and Bayonetta have about the same level of narrative depth lol. Stardew is good and I love it but its not actually very deep? I think people got fooled into thinking it is because you take down an evil coporation? (Some of) the marriage candidates have some hidden depths, the non-candidate NPCs are fairly shallow though. Its good, I like Stardew a lot. I made a post gushing about an aspect of Stardew’s narrative just the other day. But to say Stardew has narrative and Bayonetta doesnt is??? They both do and they’re about equally as deep.
You mention GOW, and the semi-reboot games have narrative depth and the old games didnt have nothing. You mention DMC5, and that game had narrative, and again the old games didnt have nothing.
I think you’re just not into those games for the narrative and think that means that its not there.
I said most hack and slash games don’t have narrative. GOW 5 and DMC 5 are obvs exceptions. But like having a captivating character that grows and develops overtime isn’t really the MO of the vast majority of those types of games.
As for Stardew vs Bayonetta, I think Stardew valley’s characters are what captivate me and keep me anchored to the game overall, whereas with Bayonetta it’s the gameplay bc I don’t see the characters grow and I don’t know anything about them beyond bff witches that fight angels and save the world. If they gave us more to work with, I’d like the story more. But Bayonetta as a character is pretty flat compared to the characters out of Stardew.
Anyway my main problem is when people try to make it like Bayonetta’s sexualization has any more of a purpose than Eve’s without even giving the game a chance.
I’m not supporting a Zionist voice actress that hates the living fuck out of people like me, so I’m not playing 3).
Wait i thought it was the orignal voice actor that was the terf reactionary, whats wrong with Jen Hale
You know what’s crazy? First one was a terf, the rumored one is a MASSIVE Zionist, and this one is not as big of a Zionist but still is.
Bayonetta is just cursed to have shitty va
Bayonetta 4: new voice actress announced
spoiler
JK Rowling
She liked a tweet that was about “standing with Israel and the victims of Oct 7” and has said nothing to my knowledge about Palestine or Palestinians as of yet.
Every single right winger that users Nier as some example of right wing politics either didn’t play the game or stared at the screen drooling with their brain switched off for the entirety of the multiple playthroughs it takes to fully finish it.
the game isn’t an example of shit about fuck, I literally feel gaslit like millions of gamers saw a couple of characters named after philosophers (which every anime has been doing forever) and were like “wauw so philosophical”
Every one of Yoko Taro’s games has been anti violence and anti military but the entirety of right wing culture war appropriation boils down to “if it has tiddy it’s good and anti-sjw” and “if it does not have tiddy it’s woke”. This is also how they completely misunderstand Kojima’s games.
I really don’t think the themes are that strong. There’s like some “endless cycle of violence is bad” thing going on but they are not convincingly anti-military.
Yeah, I don’t get how Yoko’s coombrained games get such praise from leftist. They’re held up as some amazing experience, but imo everything about them (maybe aside from the music) was pretty mid.
I’m a big fan of color pop and extravagant designs (Bayonetta 2 is the definitive out of the 3 for the atmosphere and environment alone). Nier always looked so bland to me, and the sound track was very blah.
The track to the so-shi fight is pretty lit at least. And the overworld theme is nice.
I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Link 1:
Link 2:
Youre not being gaslit you just have different taste and presumably didnt care for the metanarrative themes or something.
Kind of tired of “gaslit” being used for casual purposes like this really.
(Also i have my doubts all 14 of your upbears agreed with you lmao. I feel like Hexbear gets way to excited about contrarian takes about popular media because tbh most of y’all kind hate art lol)
Same, N:A was boring as shit and made me feel gross playing it around my partner
Tbh i think if this is your take on Nier Automata youre being just as unable to see past the sexy girls aesthetic surface as the coomerbrained chuds are, just in the opposite way. But i guess taste happens.
I mean it was also boring as shit, so i didn’t really have any motivation to explore it’s deeper themes
You mean like gameplay wise? I mean ok strong disagree but sure.
K
I think the game is horny bait boring garbage for pseuds. And no I have never played a second of the game nor will I ever.
Because chuds only deal in aesthetics, the game could be literally about october revolution where you play as Lenin and the game ends on the triumphant victory and the creation of Soviet Russia, with someone saying; “Communism will win.” Staring at the camera. BUT if every female character was hot and skimpily dressed the chuds would
all over themselves trying to claim the game for their brand of G*merism-FascismI never will understand why rightoids are allowed to be horny and not us.
Most of them are scared shitless that some supernatural entity is going to torture them forever for having a sex drive, and that’s why call anything even remotely risque the funny d-word, yet it never seems to apply to them. Like they’re allowed to be perverse as a “reward” for conforming so well.
I find it very strange that some leftists will defend sex work and pornography, with all the implications around human trafficking, consent, exploitation, etc., and then also condemn M rated games for having protagonists who are sexualized.
Are those the same people? I dont think those are usually the same people.
Sometimes they are. I knew one guy irl who was like that. Really weird.
Huh, that is a very strange combination of opinion that I havent personally encountered before. Ive run into basically every other combo of takes on sex work and sexualization but not that one lol.
I’ve seen many western leftists (usually anarchists) share that combo.
I mean, I’m more or less like that.
In short, I think both should be legal. In regards to sexwork and porn, its mostly because it will happen regardless, might as well make it as safe as possible for the people at risk.
But like, I’d still generally condemn someone for regularly purchasing sex, just as I would to someone who only plays coombrained games (not that those two things are ‘equivalently bad’ mind).
People should be allowed to make, and consume, bad media, and also people should be allowed to dunk on them for liking bad media.
In short, I think both should be legal. In regards to sexwork and porn, its mostly because it will happen regardless, might as well make it as safe as possible for the people at risk.
I think we can do better than that. Don’t legalize it, decriminalize it and then offer women who are stuck in those situations help so they can get out.
No one wants to put themselves at the forefront of some of the worst male (and state) violence for mere dollars, they do it bc they have no choice.
The solution should always be to help women escape those situations, not make those situations legal.
As for porn, that whole industry is just sex slavery with a mask on it. I’m not denying the existence of “ethical porn” but the facts state that the whole industry is caustic with abuse, trafficking, and rape.
I generally agree. I’m condensing a lot of policy into a sentence. Its also complicated, due to the interplay of capital in the mix; all of us are generally selling our bodies for money one way or the other. Not that all work is equally harmful obviously, or equally ‘work’. There’s a lot of ‘job’ that are 95%+ bullshit, and sexwork is one of those; it doesn’t need to be done, its only because of demand in the form of $ that it ‘needs’ to exist.
So there’s the question of, 'what should be done right now, and what should be done in an ideal scenario. Because ideally, demand for a thing shouldn’t make that thing exist. Powerful men A) shouldn’t exist, and B) shouldn’t be able to just ‘demand’ sex via throwing dollars at the problem.
But also, until this system is dismantled, there will be powerful men throwing money around to get sex, and there will be women who want that money badly enough to accept it. I don’t think there’s any policy that can make that not happen, so decriminalizing it to make it safe, to help the women, is the obvious short term play.
Yeah I agree with your take, we’re more or less on the same page.
, just as I would to someone who only plays coombrained games
I don’t think the vast majority of games that have sexualized characters in them deserve to be written off as only being coombrained. They might deserve to be criticized for that one specific thing, depending on context and such. (Im not someone who thinks that sexy characters are inherently bad, and also think there’s a distinction between sexy and objectifying). But the vast majority of those games have some sort of artistic merit besides the sexy girls. Whether it be gameplay or narrative or what. Even Stellar Blade, which I personally despise the vibes of deeply, apparently is pretty fun to play based on the demo.
Like even the later DOA Volleyball games are fun volleyball games lol (not the original one, but they got better) from what i hear.
So like unless its explicitly a hentai game or something that’s purpose is literally jerking off, I think there’s almost always merit outside the sex. (and if it is just a hentai game, well hentai is a significantly more ethical way of jerking off than consuming porn that uses actual actors so?)
I realize what you said was if the person’s entire list of games are horny games thats condemnable so thats not really what you were saying, but its a point I wanted to make. I would disagree with the word condemn personally anyway, and use the word mock instead lmao, “condemn” has a weight to it that I dont think that deserves.
You right, ‘mock’ is much more what I meant.
But regardless, I think the vast majority of games with sexy horny are doing it just for sales. I feel like there’s only rarely merit to it beyond titillation, and it just feels like empty glitter. Does that mean these games have nothing besides sex to offer? No, there’s games I’ve liked where I’ve had to roll my eyes at much of the visuals. But that’s not going to stop me from dunking on the visuals. Because Yoko Taro is unabashedly horny on main, and while I don’t think the design of 2b is good, I think his design work on Kainé is far worse. From what I’ve heard, her story is ‘good’, but the outfit, Yoko’s comments about her penis, and the ‘achievement’ you get for trying to look up her skirt are all deeply disgusting to me.
But regardless, I think the vast majority of games with sexy horny are doing it just for sale
Honestly, I think a lot of it was historically simply the devs’ own unexamined horniness
Personally I think 2b’s default outfit (not the one in the screenshot) is a good character design honestly. And honestly from a front view isn’t even that overtly sexual? Its only because you can look up the skirt at her butt that it becomes that. Kaine though I agree lmao she’s literally wearing lingerie* and yeah the achievement and stuff are gross. (*Though so is A2 and I like that design a bit more, idk it doesnt seem quiet as obnoxious with her, but maybe im excusing shit because i personally am highly attracted to A2 like more than the others.). Like the horny monkey brain part of me finds Kaine hot but the design is not good from that perspective.
Re “they’re just there to sell games”, I would point out that I think horny people will still make games with sexy characters in them under socialism lol. Like you even say Yoko Taro is a very horny brained person. I think he’s doing horny shit in his games because he likes it. And I think his games would still be horny under socialism.
Obviously sometimes its to sell games. DOA Extreme is obviously that lol. I just wanted to point out that horny doesnt go away with profit motive gone.
It’s the vibes man. Like cough it’s just bad dude
You shouldn’t be horny for sexist portrayals of women, I think that’s there’s a lot more criticism on the left than the right.
Because the right doesn’t care about sexism.
You shouldn’t be horny for sexist portrayals of women
I think this kind of completely disregards the existence of subjectivity? Different portrayals of women in games are going to come across differently to different players, women included. I know you find this baffling, but some women find Bayo empowering, for example. Others find her sexist and degrading. It depends on the person.
It also takes away the ability for a person to say “I know this author’s intention is sexist objectifying, but I’m choosing to reclaim the character anyway.” Which is like… a thing. Particularly for queer women (I feel that cis men like myself [well… to be determined lol] have less license [if any] to do so, and when and if I do so its only because I’m taking my lead from wlw friends).
Also tbh I think its naive to say that a person with a libido and an attraction to women is just going to be completely immune to an intentionally sexy portrayal of a woman. Of course there’s going to be a base monkey brain instinct underneath any higher order thinking criticism. There have been many lesbian memes about the subject! I’ve always found this idea that people’s higher order critical thought can override base attraction completely silly and unrealistic. Like maybe it can for you, I have to assume it can for you (or you’re asexual) if you’r saying stuff like this. But for many of us it simply doesnt work that way.
I think this kind of completely disregards the existence of subjectivity? Different portrayals of women in games are going to come across differently to different players, women included. I know you find this baffling, but some women find Bayo empowering, for example. Others find her sexist and degrading. It depends on the person.
I remember watching a stream of MGS V from Stefanie Joosten (the model behind Quiet). Her friend was also on there and she complained about how sexist her character is designed, but Joosten dismissed it and said she enjoys the design and thinks it’s cool lol
deleted by creator
That kind of attitude is why i only go to lesbian bars or places with an awareness team that will kick horny creeps out and never allow them into the venue again.
Like, seriously, your argument is literally “don’t be horny about pixels, you can be gross around actual, living women instead, they’re fair game for being objectified when they wear anything that isn’t a high-cut t-shirt.”
Yeah uh if a dude is going to oogle woman id much rather they be fictional than women with feelings about it.
Stellar Blade looks kinda dumb at a glance.
It looks ok, you don’t know what the gameplay will be like until you’ve tried it.
sis thinks she’s on the team
I’m really disappointed in these tweets I’ve been seeing from Momiji on Hexbear lately. I cannot believe the Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden character was this reactionary all along
Call of Daddy - Senior Editor Kotaku DAE
Spawn on Me
